Sheryl Sandberg, COO of Facebook: Resilience its like a muscle, which means you build it.
Today's episode is brought to you by Sephora. They've got clean makeup. Meaning the beauty you on minus the ingredients you do not will explain in a bit but first let's get into the episode. I'm Carly's Aken. I'm Danielle Weisberg skin from the couch. This podcast is where we go deep on career advice from women who have lifted from the good like hiring and growing a team to the rough stuff like negotiating your salary and giving or getting hard feedback. We started the skin from a couch. So what better place to talk it? All out than where it began on a couch. Hi everyone this show might sound a bit different today. Because we're skimming from three different couches. The skin is working from home for the time being because of Kobe. Nineteen so let's get into it. Our guest today needs no introduction. Were excited to have. Sheryl Sandberg joining us on skimmed from the couch. She is the chief operating officer of Facebook as well. As a best selling author and the founder of the leinen organization her groundbreaking career in tech along with her advocacy for women in the workplace has made her one of the most influential women in business and in the World Cheryl thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to skin from the couch. Glad TO BE. I have to admit though I am not uncapped well we. We'd always voting per catch. But do you can do so before we start i. Actually I was thinking about how I met you got connected to you and I think it's a funny story. I wanted to share which was think five or six years ago. We were having like attack Glitch Mirror. Trying to set up our facebook group and this was the earliest days and we reached out to a friend of the company and said you know anybody facebook who can help and he said sure and just added. This woman named Cheryl and I was like that can't be Cheryl and share it with you. You immediately fixed or tech glitch and became somebody who was so generous with time in offering to be there if we had questions as we were going through scaling a business and am. I always laugh at that moment. I remember looking Danielle being like am I. E Mailing V. Sheryl Sandberg Right now so. This is a full circle moment for us. Well I mean from my point of view. A friend sent him. I loved it from the beginning. Of course you can talk to me. I wasn't fry bar and I just loved it and then what I saw was to amazing women. I got chance to meet early to amazing women. Trying to start a business. I will always try to reach out and help them glad I did. But it's been nice to know you both and to see the skin grow and to come full circle from me. My daughter is twelve. She's in seventh grade. She actually very active in good baiter translated that in life me as much in news and she should and she not relief for Venda I on the way I normally started reading the news. It's your because I think it's you know it's written in a language that she finds more entertaining than you have helped my daughter today. I love that so Cheryl. We're GONNA start with an easy question. Skim your resume for us. Holly studied economics. Harvard where the World Bank as a research assistant and unless I need in fact business wall at Harvard worked at McKinsey for a year where the Treasury report and a half years as Larry Summers chief of staff went to Google. Our somewhere along the way women get skin. What is something that is not on your bio or Wikipedia? Page that we should know about you know. Well let's take a fun factor. Something that's just not not as known about you when you teach aerobics for ten years. Nineteen eighties silver tight all MAIKA. Dan is amazing like Jane Fonda error and then when the time so funny I got twenty dollars an hour. Five days a week in college took Tim. I love it. So we're GONNA switch gears and We normally like to start with your career journey. But it's hard to do this interview and not talk about the world that we are all in right now. There's a reason that we're doing this interview remote. We are all dealing with the global pandemic of Kobe. Nineteen and I WANNA START BY TALKING ABOUT WHITE. You've done at facebook internally for your employees to to help them get adjusted to the normal. I think a lot of our listeners. Right now are either managers. Small business owners themselves or working companies and trying to figure out how to adjust and you guys have really taken a lead on that so would love to hear from you on that. We've done everything we can and I say this knowing that not every Hindu. What do right we are me? Me Are not worried about not making zero next month but still get an attitude. We did move very quickly and very effectively to me at this point and had every snore worker. Who could be at home at home with a small number of people critical absence? Still have to go in your think about data centers. We're doing all. We tend to have them in the fact that we sent everyone else. Home really helps protect them. We're also came everyone paying Oliver Contractors paying all of our workers whether they can't work with each other they can work from whether their offices closed. We're paying every month but again we recognize. We're big company so the other thing. We're really focused on helping. Small businesses me announced last week. One HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR FUND TO HELP SMALL BUSINESSES WITH CASH GRANTS. They can help in your employees and we put out a lot of free educational material with small businesses to get tips on how to move from their online and not every witness him on some things that are. We're seeing them. Mealy amazing and enter a happens. Facebook is making a really concerted effort to tackle misinformation which is something that social platforms facebook has struggled with in the past especially as it relates to elections. Talk to us a little bit about what you guys are doing to target misinformation in a time where everybody is really looking to get. The Most up-to-date factual information coming from government officials coming from medical experts in an time that just folded so it so much uncertainty and fear. It's a really important question. We've long had a policy that misinformation. That could be imminent harm. It's taken down. I think very early in its racist started partnering with Whol and taking down any misinformation based off with arms. We've done that as aggressively as we know how I think we're also partnering with. Who's CDC hope ministries around the world to make sure we get the right information in front of at this point we directly to a billion people? The health resources are Cuban nineteen information center. And what we've done which is pretty aggressive. We're putting the information that people need to be right at the top of the when you think about facebook's response especially the external efforts involving small businesses. It's unfolded pretty quickly as everything has with this. How did you develop a leadership team that can be reactive in the face of such uncertainty? How do you come up with these responses in a way that can actually help people in real time no question? I actually think some of the troubles. We've had influence the mistakes we made or asked years. We've worked so hard to correct those and set ourselves. Not they're serving us well so for example when you think about this information new years ago we didn't have policies out information down where we learned the hard way cut mucus out when we have that in place when covert nineteen team around. We already had a system information. This crime we immediately rents w a chance to see the best in the world switching side West Down Think. Some of the systems rebuilt up to progressive pastor serving really well with the small business loans. You know we are in the business of serving small businesses. That means we've long had an outreach. That is if come to really quickly. I think it was two weeks on a Thursday night that we should and I think we announced Monday or Tuesday that we really quickly and again i. We have lazing teams. That are really expert witnesses. They were hearing directly from small businesses. That we cash as we need absolutely media health so we have teams in place in order to get that out the door. I WanNa talk about you as just individual like being at the helm of such a company that everyone's always watching and especially in times of crisis is really in the public eye right now but in general like how do you handle stress. My God I know about myself that I'm way way without her in credits oriented so my friend are. He's been pushing the whole rather have baby look at mechanic. Everything's fine when they don't disaster matter what you do and then I realized my God. I'm like that too and so even I'm working unbelievably hard hours right now. I think everyone is really will kick the seven hours. I need to sleep because I learned the best. Extra showers ain't nothing doing more work in tonight's not certain while the next day. I am much more active exercise. I'm I try really hard to exercise. Non Lucky I haven't ignorant. Thank you my house new again. I think we've been under a lot of stress at facebook phrase Mary. I'm in a hard year and I don't get that feeling that anyone should feel bad. I shouldn't I'm this crisis and are moving as possible. We have felt very much under siege. Not Quite at this level but we have watched two very except for the last couple of years and again I think the pace of which we've been working is serving us well during greet more. Broadly when you think about moments of crisis and you've mentioned a few that facebook has been through in the past few years and obviously were in one globally. What some advice you have looking back or some mistakes that that you guys made as a leadership team in navigating that and I asked because Carleen air in the position as CEO's really navigating a crisis for the first time at a moment where there's massive certainty and no one has answers. I'm here a couple of things. One is to just try to move into the core systems. And as I think the second is just record remember. Keep around your really human me. We're all video conferences. But I am. I don't think I'm doing one hundred percent but I just walked war right now than I think. We normally don't start every meeting at work in your own office building. Are you saying I am trying to start literally every meeting that lay in as hume probably hitting seventy seven? But I hate that moment when I started I just started doing. It happens to people in the company the company inches for the other thing. Is You really want employees? Doing the peaceful come during this conversation. We know things are different. People have complete home. Your kids have twin children. People are under tremendous stress weekend. Everyone pays for being out. Worthing everyone for bonus because we said you know you're GonNa do all your friends jumped went last regular issue. He'll and he's when you do that. And when you treat people right way they're just even more they feel. They feel that they're getting me deserve. That's what that's what people sir. We are traveling all the time for work. All one thing that we are really obsessed with is thinking through what we put on our skin when we are flying when we are travelling when we are on the road in so many places. It's really important that we keep ourselves healthy and we've started to think about. What does that actually mean regarding the products that we use on a daily basis as also because her skin just looks really bad when we traveled so he loves using products. That ARE CLEAN. Because we like to know. Now what's in them and we don't want to actually have to sacrifice the quality which I think is a big misnomer. Think about clean beauty. And that's something that we've really started to investigate in so lucky for all of us. This march four is raising the expectation. On what clean can be yes. They have some amazing brands that are clean and thoughtfully made and some of our favorites are bite. Ilya Casaus our Ms Beauty Tower. Twenty eight and artsy so the products are packed. With good for you ingredients. They look good and they make you look good. It's great that one of our favorite stores before is focused on clean beauty. We really appreciate that. I think that we are part of a generation. That's really thinking about what's going into the things we use every single day and it's great that we can get all the products that we really love without the ingredients that no one needs exactly so time for you to get the best in clean makeup at Sephora online and in store right now look for the green seal to know which products are Kleenex afforest certified. I WanNa talk to you about resilience. You wrote Your Book Option. B. In the wake of your husband's untimely passing and your book touched on both in really different ways and we both really leaned on the lessons of compartmentalizing that you talk about in the muscles of resilience through a lot of different personal challenges over the last few years and I want you to kind of walk us through what resilience has meant to you in the workplace in what you think it should mean for others in the office. Resilience is our ability to Joe Everyone's facing right now. We need something six to nine on John. It's like a muscle to do. I think that initial insight is so important because when people overwhelmed. I've heard people say I can't. I don't have results not hustling like. Actually you have some and your voice to have more question is how do you feel? You've built it by recognizing that would ever. You're almost certainly not and that applies to the very worst. As you know the way I saw after my husband died which is kind of is devastated. Imagine even I'm we'd better. It's five years late and when people said to me for not your yoga sway. Five years I didn't there are so many for right now who are working at. London's the two who are looking at situations better. I'm admirable and leaving the very worst situation. The idea that every is not routes great. People do not come back from midnight. Feel we'll get better. Is I think Mary. Reassurance thing is this is a heart this remembering things could be worse when Adams said to me we know it could work and I was like really my husband just literally drop dead like happy he said gave at your resume driving your chill pill ossoff green and all of a sudden. I was like okay. My kids were ride. Snow are really hard right now. Thinking about how things could be worse is a way of feeling grateful for what you have and that along with remembering whatever state you're in is not our rays of zones in the third thing. Is We all love? It is being near for other people my children and I every single afternoon my kids Meyer. Holly on a smart people in our family are fans of older. People who are who. Milan's call the journey a novel and it gives them a moment of winning rather than worrying about they don't get to see their friends. They realize new. Permanent Reverend Hoffa Malone in Florida they can haul them in vacancy of giving others right taking a step back from the current crisis that we're in. I WanNa talk about one of the things that Danielle and I've spent so much time just going back and forth talking about which is how does show emotion in the workplace and I say that as we are both really private people and I grew up with the mantra leg. Everybody cries about work. You don't cry at work and I think as a leader now I relaxed what that means and what the impact of of that can phrase could mean to. Somebody and I'm curious as you've grown from you know a leader at Google inch. Obviously your your role now. How has your thoughts around showing emotion in the workplace changed? And what do you say? Now to those entering the workforce. It's interesting question is definitely one that the answer for me and what I did change over the course of my career. And he's a there soon. I ever in mid I cried at work. I was already at the first time. I talked about the challenges when I was in. It's already to facebook. Ceo and then. I said I cried got reported Sheryl Sandberg cries I'm Mark Zuckerberg shoulder I mean I was mortified. Wissmann 'em and with the Work Foundation did and the PUCK and I tried to say we have emotion can show it at work but it's tricky and it is definitely easier it will get. I think part of the answer is we need men to show emotion at work too right because such a big percentage of the leader rent skill that cons normal and while we still have a long way to go I think about Maria ten years ago or even certain people really being more willing to rush it. You can't cry every day. It just can't. I mean I did after Dave side but for the most part it can't but I think moments were honest and vulnerable really matter more. Can I do a thing with our senior leadership team whenever we do meeting? We DO CHECK INS YOU CHECK INTO MEETING. And what we mean is we. Check in her assuring. So here's what's going on for me. Especially here's this no nonsense and while I think when we first introduced it in with a little jarring people now everyone says that are being best things checking and people have shared just the most for small things. Children going aisin issues in their home health issues and it's really at the heart of why are leadership soon as strong as we really actually institutionalize sharing or smoke in Berchtesgaden. So talking about Leinen men women in the workplace. You wrote the book in twenty thirteen honey. You think your advice is held up as workplaces has have obviously continued to change. Is there anything you look back now? And you're like oh I would definitely adjust that yeah There were things I would have just you know when I wrote me and I had no idea anyway. We saw the first version of the book with just all data. I it was fabulous in in my editor told me it was the worst book they have to choose to. Bring your story in my store when I was good enough shopping other raise. He's one of the main criticism with men. Is that hard at red as if it was about? You Know White. Esslingen is really the only sways in there that came alive on mine and so we infer graduate added that missing and you just more story. More women of color more women in different industries. But I do think slim of the things that leaning has tried to tackle. We're still on right. We have a very strong you. I had one in Dacian very strong hugh at women in leadership if we could name. That's just a fact. I think we need to do better and we need to do more. We the very strong view that women have to go for leadership. Mitch can't do it alone. Meet the systems with their policies. That enforcement meeting supported each other and I think probably the thing. That's been the most ratifying that we started at the beginning wetted still circle small group of women that meet in person they now meet. Our goal was a thousand now. Free seven thousand nine hundred. Seventy four hundred eighty percent of women who joined circles attributed positive positive life. Change to their several in two thirds. Say they're taking on channel. Women can't do it on. The idea of union was always that we're GONNA have to support each other and have just been really powerful at Cheryl. I'm curious you know when I read the book it brought to light and not just for me but for so many behaviors that women tend to fall into in the workplace. Whether it's use of language or just really like sub-conscious behavior that stereotypically women Subscribed to you so I wanna tell you about a situation that yellen. I found ourselves in in the last few months we had a meeting with a female mentor. And we were telling her business update and we were coming up really competent and had a lot of strong opinions about a certain issue and she said to. Us ladies. I just WanNa tell you like you're coming up really strong and you need to tone it down and when you go into meetings you've gotTa tone it down and we both left that meeting and looked at each other mirror like that was really up up. But we didn't know what to say in that moment and I am glad that we have the confidence today to know that that was wrong but I don't think we would have had the confidence. If you years ago to that how do you think we should have responded? And how do you think our listeners should respond in moments like that? Women are too aggressive. I'm here from aggression. But an average women are told. They're too aggressive much more than that. But when you in that situation recognizing that there's inherent bias and this is important women to the first thing is not internalizing the bias recognizing bias. That's advice I feel very comfortable giving everyone when this happened. We should recognize the bias as you. Well as you said you're going to experience differently if you realize bias on how to handle it. I don't think you can give generic advice right if you got a very well. Meaning that you've had many conversations with someone told you now I think there's bias in the work for if I ever debited his. You can look at them and say hey you asked me to tell you. This is how you're trying to raise money for your company and some of that in a meeting might undo it. Not your best moments. Be like an your bias. We've been there many time. Yes but I can't say that the more this is generally good in population the easier upon for us to surfacing and women women still face actual harassment. Really horrible things that happen when I miss some of the big stuck at least in most companies at least you can go to. Hr Right you know the big harassment stuff. There are systems not everywhere but a lot more than there used to be for dealing with it but the small everyday seeing that That are still really really really holding them. Back men getting credit for their idea getting interrupted more niece. These happen by very well. Meaning people it can be really hard to them because that. Hr that much you. I I got up again right. I mean you could let people do so trying to set up systems where you found within your company and other organizations you can follow up there things more anonymously so that people can address them. I think is really really helpful before we go into our last segment. I WANNA ask about something. That feels a little bit off topic In this environment but I think as we remember the twenty twenty is the year of covert. It's also an election year and one of the things. Our audience is really cares about a sustainability in climate change and facebook has pledged to reach one hundred percent renewable energy twenty twenty. Can you talk a little bit about that goal? And if you guys are on track we are on track. And I'm really proud of our of our working. With data centers run a lot of energy companies like are a lot of energy and for a long time in our industry. How you ran your data centers with a very seriously help editing secret because if you've got more efficient cheaper and that was a cost advantage it was also better am. I think we were the first company. Were we open source? We found a way to make our data centers. I think at the time by thirty two percent more efficient and we open source closely and so we said to the world here. We're running more efficiently rather than they've another pasta advantage for us. We care about the environment and we open source citizen chair. That was part of half of US getting completely on renewable energy and so. I'm proud of the work nine to help. Not just our own company but our community and at community in more collaborative working toward honor to preventing climate change so now on to our last segment. It's our favors name lightning segment so we will ask you a few short questions and just answers fast as you can okay. Are you ready? I'm ready wettest. Replace Your morning. Commute warning stretch. Are you on morning person or night? Owl and Julia morning foursome. What is the last? Tv show bench watched herb your enthusiasm. Oh that's what I'm watching right now. Watching all of that work from. Home Tempe back. I mean trying to tell my children that they can't come in. What is something that you do that annoys mark? Eat His food. Are you a good cook? I wasn't I think a while ago. Are you cooking dinner right now? More like meeting things off were heavily on. Microwaves right now but yes I'm I'm cooking. I guess you off of a last question. What's good one what you're shameless? Plug a home. Everyone you can stay home really shudder. As I've heard too many people say well I'm not going to get sick place for protecting everyone. You're protecting health workers. My sister's frontline health work sheriff's Me County Hospital as a pediatrician. Everyone off to go to work to do things like behalf your first responders but if you can stay home needs do because you're protecting people who after work and the people who are wonderful. I don't even think it. Shame from thrilled to be able to say that I agree and thank your sister for but she all medical professionals are doing. Right now was Cheryl was such a great time to talk to you and thank you for being a longtime skimmer and thank your daughter for being a new skimmer innkeeper. Rain sat on you advice every so often that you've needed much but you set an example for a lot of young women here on businesses and we're GONNA need that even more than ever so adulation thank you. Thanks for hanging out with us. Join US next week for another episode of skin from the couch. And if you can't wait until then subscribe to our daily email newsletter that gives you all the important news and information you need to start your day sign about the skin dot com. That's the way I am Dot Com two m's for a little something extra Tuesday march thirty. I is paid. It's the day that symbolizes the gender pay gap. It means that in order to make the equivalent of a man's twenty nineteen salary. Women have to work an extra three months on average. You might thank doesn't the equal pay act in men and women get paid the same while that's complicated and we wanted to find out why to listen to what we found. Check out our skim special equal pay you can find it. By subscribing to our daily podcast. Skim this wherever you get your podcast. It will also be in the skin this speed.