2001 Redraftables With Zach Lowe: Parker or Pau? Arenas or Iso Joe? Elgin, MJ, and Wallace Doing Stuff! | Book of Basketball 2.0
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Shame you but you should at least try out a podcast on spotify. Check it out. It's as easy as I just described and speaking of checking out stuff. The Ringer Dot com still cranking out sports pop culture and a whole bunch of other things. We have some good stuff in the works. We have not slowed down despite other stuff. That's going on. I hope you're staying safe. I hope you're listening to the doctors. And scientists were. GonNa get through this at some point. We're trying to get some context for you so I know everybody's board out there I know. I know it's been tough times but We're just trying to do our job over here and hope your stand safe coming up me. Zach Lowe the two thousand one redraft ables here the basketball. But that's still near Josh inch of you should bash bashed all right. The redraft ables continues. I was on his podcast last week. Doing our belated. Mvp ballot this week. Zach Lowe and I are redrafting the two thousand one draft which is one of the last drafts. We're just all hell broke loose And it's a really weird one to look at again first of all How much old basketball are you watching these days? Now that we are in week four of the Quarantine. Not as much as you would think honestly Not that much like seriously i. I have a lot of work to do. I feel like I have a lot of work to do like they still want some of my regular columns there's the whole like is the NBA. Coming Back News Story. That we're all kind of tracking. I've kind of tried to lean into like I WANNA cover. What teams are doing now rather than full on the stage road and then when it gets to like nine nine thirty at night? My wife doesn't WanNa Watch basketball. She wants to have a glass of wine and she got me into the Great. I'm watching the great British. Bake off right now. Unbelievable Oh wow look at you What do you can do is unbelievable for so am. I did a podcast yesterday and kind of stumbled into a conversation that I got increasingly excited about. Since we've done it and I think I'm probably a little too pessimistic about sports coming back but if the able to figure it out one of the one of the hurdles I couldn't get past was how weird it would be to watch everybody empty arenas and how nonsensical that'd be and as we're kind of talking it out. I was saying well. It would actually make more sense if they did it. In like high school gyms Smaller facilities places like that. And then Had somebody who knows things told me that practice facilities actually could be the way that they're going to do this and there's some benefits there one. Is that way less people involved with the practice facility? The teams basically. I think there's every team own some semblance of practice at this point right off thirty. Yeah either that or they are well there are a couple that have it in their arenas yes. I wonder if there are any other just straight up practicing their arena regular floor anymore. I'm not sure there are so you would cut down on the people that were actually working there and then from a media standpoint the way that they could do the cameras would actually be pretty cool because everything would be so close to the court and there's no fans you could get way more creative and basically make it look like the most awesome version of a scrimmage ever like you know they have the famous Dream Team Ninety two scrimmages and the footage leaked out of some of those games and it was like awesome to watch but they're in a big arena. You kinda can find that to some awesome little area and you just had them going in their uniforms i. I'm starting to talk myself into this. I might just Miss Basketball though the practice scillies of definitely been talked about the NBA. Definitely sniffs smells opportunity like. Let's let's the the brightest possible bright side of all this if we can come back even if there's no fans in the venues are weird and all that like people are dying to watch this on television like. It's an opportunity for US people trapped in their houses. They want to watch something. But the practice facility thing is like you know you read about what baseball is trying to do with all the spring training facilities in Arizona versus this Vegas bubble thing that got some media. Traction how many practices Cilliers are reusing like over using one centralized one? We are decentralizing. It again in this idea. That's the challenge to me is like who's where how many people have to hop from one place to another. Does anybody have to hop from one place to another whereas the finals idea that? That's that's up in the air. Yeah well I think one thing that I I'm officially on this point from this point forward if we do this it's not going to be in the NBA. Arenas and I think I think people in the League have even kind of accepted that that if this happens it's gotta be a smaller venue. Maybe it's pepperdine. University for the Lakers. Sir May be. It's you know some some high school that state of the art in the La area. Maybe it's the Lakers training center You go on through. They'll figure it out. I'm not that concerned. I also think if they do it'll be just the playoff teams that come back It just makes it so much easier and whether it's eight we talked about eight teams twelve teams last week on your pod Maybe everybody gets a first round by the top four seeds. The seeds five through twelve plan. But I there's there's certainly motivated financially to figure it out and Oh yeah On all sides so we'll see goes all right. We're talking about the two thousand one draft. This was the first draft our differ. Espn this does Iran too. I read it. I wrote diary. Yeah it was probably like by six column I ever wrote for. Him and I was really excited. Unleash the concept of the draft diary on. Espn's audience remember led the website with it. As very excited. You were with Dad. You were watching it with your dad and the dogs were very dog or multiple dogs. Were very excited about the draft. I can't remember. I can't remember how aggressively you talked herself into Joe Forte in that In that draft diarrhea. But we can talk about that. It was fairly aggressive. So what they would show forte. He actually was good at North Carolina like in the two thousand NCA tournament. He made big plays. And you know I think there there was some stuff going on with him. May Be off the court that derailed him to some digress. I'm not sure what position he was. It's a classic like Oh this guy will translate as a pro and then he gets to the pros during like well. You're six two and a half but you're not a point guard. What are you those guys with? Very rare exceptions don't seem to make it but I remember one of the things. Think back to this draft the Tony Parker thing lingering. Nineteen Year Old. French point guard and being like all right. That sounds great. But what are the odds? This guy is GonNa make it. His nineteen is from France and he plays point guard. We've seen young point guards get chewed up. Left and right When you think back to how you were looking at this draft in two thousand one do you remember what storyline? You're the most interested in I think it was. I think it was the the big men and the high school. You know the peak of taking guys out of high school and you have. We'll talk about the the all of that. I assume but you know just Curry Chandler. Gamay like is this. The wave of the future is this. Just how the Bids GonNa be now taking taking high school guys. In all these seven footers coming into wants that was definitely the main storyline and then there was like some some like you know our p like Eddie Griffin was sort of like weird skilled. Big Guy like people didn't know what to do with a ham and then the but but I remember the I remember the big guys at the top obviously and the contrast with Batty in particular like Classic College Polished Duke Guy Versus like these raw seven foot high school dudes the first four picks in the draft if you go to a basketball reference dot com our friends at basketball reference so. I get a lot of action these days. There's no college next to the first four picks how this all also in there And then the eighth pick to sign a diop no college and then Ladron Radovich number twelve seed. Six in the first twelve guys did not go to college which was really unusual. And now as I think a little more typical but and and your guy and your guy key Brad went to Oakland Yukata Walton Community College. Yeah Use Juke Guy. So basically seven of the top twelve guys were not college guys. There is a sense that we felt at the time that something was really shifting with the draft because by this point dirk was having real success as a foreign foreign player We started to hear the rumblings about Manu may be the spurs at lucked out. He was gonNA come over at some point and then with the high schoolers cagey was now. A top fifteen top twelve guy. Kobe was rounding into a superstar. And there is a sense of. Where's this going? Where's this heading? Is this GonNa be completely different in ten years? What's funny as this was really the last really super crazy. High scores all at the top of the draft cardio year it settled down after this and you look at the top. Four picks Washington ended the first pick and Michael Jordan Was I can't. He wasn't there yet. I think he was about to start. Those were owner. Oh he yeah he were hold on. I can't remember how many years he was out. But he was in charge of this draft and there is a famous he worked out with kwami. Brown thought he had a lot of dog home and and it was actually a A. It was a bad assessment. One of many reasons why Michael Jordan turned out to be a bad executive and owner but Washington had the first pick so yeah this was his to Washington seasons where Oh one zero two to three so he had this pick and one of the ironies of this draft. You've Jerry Krause in Chicago WHO's trying to trade out brand. Who is really bullish on? I WANNA get Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. I'm GONNA have basically the Highschool Mikhail and parish or the Macaire or the Sampson Malaysian. So Eddie out. Brain is for sale and Michael Jordan. Hey Jerry Krause so much the most logical move for him in so many different ways just flip the number one. Pick for out brand And then bring him in. You have repayments and they're already Jordan like you could actually have a playoff team right away but he hated Jerry. Krause so much ends up taking kwami Brown. Do you feel like Kwami. Brown could have made it in a if we play his career. Ten Times is there six versions of the Quami Barranco rare where he's like an all star and all star is strong like? I don't think he ever showed enough on offense to to be an all star but to your point like his career was Troubled so immediately by his wizards experience. Which is what is the name of that book about. Jordan's timing the wizards in Washington. Polite away yeah. It's like when winning is all that matters or something like that. It's a fantastic Jordan I think Jordan hates the book. And you probably should. Because it's just an unfiltered look and one of the subplots of it is just how he famously just kind of broke. Kwame Brown so I think there probably is a version of his career. That goes better. He sustained for a while in the NBA is like a solid post defender. Backup Big Kinda Dude and made a good amount of money. But I think there's definitely a version his crew that goes better but offensively like he just never really showed you much like ought to be an all star. You usually have to be a pretty damn good offensive player. I don't think ever showed that well. Unfortunately he crosses paths with MJ IN HIS FORMATIVE YEARS. Stubborn old angered everybody. I'm Jay then. Eventually ends up on the Lakers with Kobe. I would say those were. The two were teammates. He could have had for if you're talking about a fragile guy with potential. Who in a different circumstance? Maybe there's an arc where he makes it. We talked on the nineteen ninety eight draft about Nowitzki. How fortunate he was just end up in Dallas. He ends up with the perfect coach. Don Nelson he ends up with Steve Nash. Who takes him under his wing? That I share nuits is super lonely. He's not happy in the NBA. He's wondering if he made a mistake. It's the lockout year it's fifty games. It's a lot at once. There's a lot of pressure on him. He wants as he's like second guessing that decision to come at that time and his two. He's got Mark Stein. And Steve Dash basically being no no. It's good and and he rides it out and he makes it but think like there's an alternate universe where he goes to. I don't know or he goes to Memphis Milwaukee instead of them right and maybe he's ends up in Germany in two years like I'm just happier in Europe so I look at qual- thought he was really athletic. Those earlier's member the second half of his career. There are all these defensive metrics that he was actually like a really really really good defensive player and you could do real stuff on defense like he was a decent to good defensive player for sure. See have him. Steve Washed and they were found that the clippers eligible Taylor. I wrote this in the draft. Made maybe the only good trade of his entire GM tenure until two thousand six flips tight Tyson Chandler pick number two for out brand and bison early on this really professional. Non Clipper kind of Guy. Who just is a pro handles his business who's an automatic twenty ten and that was a fantastic trade Third Pick was Atlanta and I think POW GUSAU. Not Maybe enthusiastic about going there. There was some sort of something that they they'd love. They ended up slipping him doing this whole Memphis trade him right and so he goes there. Chicago's got the fourth pick according to my draft. Ira they're doing a whole smokescreen. How much they want. Power saw really they WANNA curry? They WANNA do the Chandler Curry Combo. So those were the first four picks. I felt this way in the moment. It's an and especially as it evolved and we knew Powell is good pretty quickly. It's always been interesting to me that M. J. never went never sniff POW that if he was going to take a gamble on a young forward that he wouldn't have clicked better power. I don't know enough about the background of that Bo. Do you remember anything about that. Why they didn't gravitate toward pal. I don't remember I don't remember. Maybe it was too much of an unknown. Maybe there was still sort of like do. I trust the international guys kind of thing going on at that point. I don't know I don't know why. But how walked in the League and was was pretty damn good. 'cause if you're a wizards fan you look back at this and you go. Oh man we could have had pound rip Hamilton basically two years apart we had. Mj Who was still at twenty point score at the time and the League was pretty weak back then. And I think Powell at least could've put points right away. The Quami thing was just just went badly on a lot of expectations to. I'm glad you defended the The clippers acquisition of Elton brand. Can we talk a second about Elton Brand? Just walks in the league as a rookie and averages twenty and ten like as a rookie walked in twenty and ten you can tell me about the limitations of his game like you know how. How much brandon his prime drive winning? I think I think he's actually underrated in that aspect. Because we've sort of we've sort of downplayed post scoring and he wasn't a three point shooter and he wasn't like a seven footer with shop locking skills that at an elite level and all that but Elton brand was freaking good and Tyson Chandler for Elton brand. I mean that is like a crazy challenge trade. That is an amazing trade. That's like it's not quite Luca for trae because those guys were drafted at the same time. But it's like age wise. Those guys were so like Elton was twenty. One I think at the time of that trade that you don't see a lot of traits like that and Elvin was to walk in the League as twenty and ten guys really really hard. Well the other thing Tyson was a local kid and I think people felt like the clippers. We're GONNA take the local kid day. Didn't WanNa take another kid and they don't even though he was only head into his third year. I think is just you know he. He's now that he was always kind of a mature younger guy and I think they they really valued that In unbelievable trade really like would you think of all the bad trades. Elgin Baylor made and how great that one was. You talked about how he was underrated. We talked about this a little bit. Nine pod Elton in that Oh five oh six quicker season when they really could have made the finals that year. I think I was going to those games. L. Was like twenty five and eleven every single night and was weirdly valuable on defense to I. I thank God that your was mobile. He was smart. He has super long arms. That made up for like kind of his lack of fight. At least when he played some five he was like in August that year. He was amazing that was his best year and then he was automatic. Other than that. You're twenty and ten. Before he tours Achilles he was he was a walking twenty and ten. Who was a good smart defensive player and you could go to him at least that you're at the end of games which wasn't always the case with him but that year he he was. I gotta say a Little Dunkin Ish Is that was? The Dunkin. Apex was kind of on the tail end but he was somebody that every night. I went to a Cook Gamma Dombrowski scored twenty five points tonight. There weren't a lot of guys in the week and then Philly does sing. About what Philly does he tears his Achilles and we're still all in we're still here's all the money or almost all the money not quite all the money but almost all of them. I think it was not going all the money we can throw at you. Yeah you just suffered a torn Achilles. We'll bring you over. I'm actually reading Audrey with dollars book right now and Andre. I loved Elton Brand. He loves he loves it. He got to play with like old out and Brandon Philly and he really gravitate toward L. andbranch learn a lot about managing money and just like to talk black history with all sorts of stuff but he talked about how I believe. If I'm getting all my details right if not forgive me I believe Eddie Jordan was the coach in Philly for part of that and they were trying to play the Princeton offense and Andre talks about how Elton occasionally would be like fuck this Princeton off and I just got. I just got to get some numbers I gotta get some touches. I gotTa Get some post touches and Andre had this weird like he kind of. Didn't like it when Elton break the offense. Because it's not how I'm not a Princeton offense again. Just give me the ball dumped me the ball and get a score bucks but he also kind of respected. How Elton would just be like nope. It's my it's my time now. We're not ready to prison off. It's L. E. Kinda respected it Isla. I really liked his game. Great Trade for the clips So one other thing. Which cargo did this year where they're in year three of the post? Mj rebuilding project. Which in the M J documentary. That's coming on. Espn from our friend. Jason Hare it. It's never truly bent. Explained why the Bulls were like. Yeah cool we're done with this done winning titles with Phil Jackson Jordan. Pippen thing like it ends this year And I wrote a column for US probably three years ago when I was trying to figure out what team Lebron was gonna go to in two thousand eighteen When it became clear like around January February that he probably wasn't going back to Cleveland. But where was it going to go? We didn't have a team and it was the same dilemma Jordan. Had that year and I'm always going to think that's why he retired. Because they're blowing up the bulls play anywhere else. There wasn't really a situation for him other than maybe the next the next nab the cap space to sneak them in he. He wasn't GonNa the Lakers. He wasn't really. There is no other place from Nagoya so he retired and I think that was a little bit of the situation. Lebron was in two thousand eighteen. He goes to the Lakers. Because it's Los Angeles Great. I get to move there. Basically the two thousand eighteen season is gonNA sock but maybe we'll make some moves after that So anyway a I never understood why they blew it up. I think there was a lot of organizational arrogance. We're in year three of that. Mj Blow a plan. And now they're blowing it up a second time. They're doing building around the too high schoolers. And when you think about how long this took. They made the playoffs in five with a lot of fun team first round. They were a little frisky. Had some guys in there but it was a six year. Run just to lose in six in round one. And then it craters again they end up getting derrick rose and then they get rejuvenated but it was really. They threw a decade stu bad it's hard the NBA can be unforgiving man. What's your bad if you don't get the right guy in the draft. If you don't get lucky a couple of times like you can be bad for a long time and the Bulls were bad for long time. Then they were good for a long time as much as Garen. Packs are getting hammered now and demoted now like they they had a decent run there for a while before the last few years kind of Senate around the Butler trade where everything kind of went sour. I mean they they they. They had once they got rose. That was a good team for a while. Yeah and it seemed like if you were betting When it rose get hurt was at that was two thousand. Twelve playoff say eleven twelve season. Yeah so we at grant land. We launched Grantland June two thousand eleven and we never did this calm but if we did like who are the teams most likely to win the NBA title? We had done that October. Two or two thousand eleven. Whenever the lockout ended I think Chicago would have been one of the top three packs. I think we were Cog Oklahoma City Miami right. That's an injury that for anyone who was. That's that's a sort of a that's a you remember where you were when that injury happened because it was like it was a great. They were the number one seed. It was shaping up to be. Chicago and the Lebron heat like year after year after year in the playoffs. And you had the sense of the Bulls like they just. They didn't fear Miami. Like Noah and Taj Gibson. Those dudes like love to duke it out with Miami. They hated the Bron- like it had a chance to be a rivalry. And I think that's one of the things when people look back on the bronze salmon. Miami is the East like Indiana sort of just slipped into this in the east and I think we're going to be debating for a long time. Like how good was that. Pacers team really that good or were the product of the conference. That just didn't have another capital t team to to challenge Miami like the Bulls are supposed to be that team and you had even though as an ACL and people recover pretty well from those. Now I even at that moment given the way. The Derrick rose played it. Had this feel of like ooh like things just changed forever. I agree eight sometimes with an ACL. You go like Klay Thompson and like he'll be back in the year he'll be fine with rose. It was like taking one of the most carefully built five hundred thousand dollars talion race cars and just watching. It crashed wall and then have somebody to tell you. Yeah the car should be finding like. I don't know man. That was a pretty bad the way he played the Torque put on the lower part of his body. It just seemed like Oh man how is he going to come back from this mentally and as we saw took how many years five I mean for you never got back to it you know. I mean he never got back to that form ever. I mean he was. Mvp Year before he's never approached that that level he's a he's a good player now in the NBA is rebuilt himself into a good useful NBA player. That's the credit to him. Two thousand playoffs. The Celtics ended up creeping into the conference finals and coming very close to sneaking into the finals with their on fumes of their fumes. At this point that team they were like five hundred for a three month stretch. I think in two thousand twelve the the other one the other one that was kind of missed opportunity team Other than Chicago was Brooklyn. Because if I'm just looking at those four Miami years I don't I will never understand what happened to Darren Williams but on paper with the talent they had when they added Cagey impure state year. That should have been an awesome team. And for whatever reason Darren Williams was already done with his prime even though. He was the same age as Chris. Paul if you put like an actual twenty ten Darren Williams the guy from two thousand eight on that nets team with all those pieces. I think that would have been a really tough team for Miami. Beat but he just wasn't the same guy thought going to be really good And they just like you said just it just didn't work. I never I I not. I'm not sure how much believe that. They were going to challenge Miami but they had the potential to be really really good. And Yeah the twenty playoffs. That's the uncut gems playoffs. Now that's the uncut when they slog it out Boston Philly and one of my everyone you you just have these some images just stick with you from Games in like some people forget certain things. Like one of the things always remember from that playoffs. Game seven Miami. Boston Brandon Bass ends up being the guy the Celtics asked to guard Lebron down the stretch of that game and crunch time. Third and fourth quarters like they're out of ideas they've this is the last idea that they've come up with. He had like a few possessions in the previous game where he looks pretty good. They're like Oh yeah Brandon Bass. That's going to be how we're going to get through just like they're just out of ideas. Yeah I remember. Making a couple of massive shots just heartbreaker shots that fourth quarter but yeah all right so the rest of this Top Ten and GOES GOLDEN STATE MEMPHIS and I had in that draft. Ira MEMPHIS takes shame. Badea and stern is a bullion. It's so it's the first time he's happy. It's a four year senior Duke. He's just so happy to have an adult in the draft. The Nets are seven and they make the biggest traders draft other than brand trade. It's a pretty crazy trade actually When you really sit down and look at how much they traded for Eddie Griffin. So they're picking seventh Houston has thirteen eighteen and twenty three and they out I got Freddie Griffin misspoke. Yea So the nets say. We'll give you the Eddie Griffin. Pick number seven who's got a lot of value For the people who don't remember him he's dead now but he was this guy from Seton Hall who had been in a lot of stuff but was really talented mallet so it's like a modern NBA talent to write like a potential multiple. Oh Mba guy. If you could just keep him in check who'd you compare him to do you remember? I don't really remember his game that much at this point but I remember him being a an all around score tall guy you know. I don't know if he was technically seven feet but an all around score. Looks like a guy that you could a guy who a big guy at dependent potential to play inside and out and exploit mismatch is just like across the board. Whoever that whoever comes to mind for that description for some reason I wanna say Michael Porter is that fair to what we have in our head of. How good porter could be that. That's kind of how remember feeling about Eddie Griffin? I think he could post up a little more. So Houston says we'll give you thirteen eighteen and twenty three for seven six three first round picks just to move up six spots which is a bad as big of a price as we've seen other than like the Chris Webber trader support that the nets as sure they have At this point they have already made the Jason Kidd Trade. They are to have any Martin they already have Kerry kittles they end up taking Richard Jefferson thirteenth. So it's going great with the eighteenth. Pick Zach Randolph on the board take Jason Collins Instead and then with the twenty third pick they take Brandon Armstrong for pepperdine yet. Didn't go well and one of those two like one and a half or three Jason calls was a useful. Nba Players Zach Randolph. You can play that game with a lot of guys but like just causes good. Mba DECENT NBA player from a talent standpoint it. It felt like Randolph at fallen too far and he was another guy who people had some head case questions about But they take brain. Strong Gerald Wallace is twenty five. Sandown bears twenty six. Tony Parker's twenty-eight Gilbert Arenas thirty one there's a world in which the nets traded Griffin and built a dynasty. Yeah 'cause they could even if they had taken Richard Jefferson Zach Randolph. Tony Parker which is conceivable That's a monster hall. So then the other plot bears the Celtics have ten ten eleven and twenty one. And if you're a celtics fan which I was at the time I was still living in Boston. They had Paul Peirce St Anton Walker. We've got Rick Pitino We there's momentum. Kenny Anderson was whatever Tony bootees whatever they have role players but you think like man if we nail this draft and it's deep draft We could really be set here unfortunately for the Celtics it was a nine player drafted the tenth pick. So why did somebody bought? Somebody needed to do something dumb in here. Come THE CLEVELAND cavs. They take the sign of Diop eighth and everything falls into place. Joe Johnson falls to the Celtics attend the Cajun Brown. Pick number eleven. You remember the story of this Peck Right. Oh yes so they have a Denver. Pick that they can just roll over two thousand two in. Its top five protected road over again. It becomes unprotected in two thousand three. The nuggets are one of the worst franchises in the league. They have no real young anything yet. They do not have a pick in this draft because the Celtics are taking it to. Something's just said. You keep that pick. We're going to roll it over there. Only get in the eleventh pack and then in o-3. It's Carmelo Anthony. Which is the pick the Celtics Agai the weirdest thing about this to Celtics Deep Divey? But they had all these luxury tax fears and fifty games into this two thousand one two season. They Trade Joe Johnson. Apparently they gave Phoenix to pick Joe Johnson or CAJA BRAND. You can have either. They pick Joe Johnson. The Celtics throw in two thousand and two first round. Pick and get Rodney Rogers. Tony delk back. They're so excited that you brought up that trade because I remember at the time this is near the Celtics. Make the conference finals and lose to the nets. I remember at the time twenty five year. Old Twenty four year old me. Then he got twenty Belkin Rodney. Rogers as you said Tony. Delk was twenty eight and like okay. Rodney Rogers like a very intriguing. Both faceted big man who could shoot threes and do some stuff. I remember at the time being like that is one of the most aggressive win now trades. I can't remember given the like that. Celtic seem wasn't that good like that wasn't a team that you would be like. They're they're Rodney Rogers away from being a championship. Contender was that was not being like the east stinks. Were not very good. Let's get freakin crazy. And that trade. In retrospect like Belkin Rogers had some moments for the Celtics in that very strange playoff. Run that they had like that is a crazy trade. That's a crazy trade Chris Wallace I remembered liking the trade at the time But thinking they paid a heavy price with Joe Johnson and never for a million years understanding why they also had to throw in the first round pact. You were produce. This is probably why they did it. Because they're so starved for that at that point from for like post bird anything like poachers. Give us a playoff run of any kind. Yeah will lose in the conference finals. But it'll be worth it because they'll just be so fun like teams talk themselves into that and the Patriots just won the Super Bowl. Did they changed at one or did they win the Dow? I know what I really. There's a lot of a minimum of like the Celtics are good. The Celtics are fun. Forget these other to pieces. Maybe a win. The problem is they traded for to bench guys. And you're right. This is a trade that if it happened now the Internet would riot. You'll be like Joe Johnson's good you're giving him for. You're giving up a Joe Johnson after fifty games for like a seventh man and an eighth man. What are you guys doing like nowadays? They would never do that. You'd probably be able to get both of those guys for the two thousand two first round pad yet and Joe Coretec tag and yet there are Celtics fans. Maybe you are one of them. Who Will Whisper very quietly? You know we actually. Kinda played the Lakers. Tough that year. If we had made the finals like you never know you never know. I'm like yeah. I know shock would have smashed her entire team into smithereens and four games. Will you still here man if we had just gone by the net? You never know we give those Lakers seems trouble in the defense of those celtics that which include myself with my dad. He played the Lakers off of that year. Paul Peirce is a problem for them. We won in La. I wanted to play them. I remember thinking if we just kept by the nets we can give this laker steamer run. It would have been that. Oh to Lakers team. That was worn out for that kick series two. Who Does Paul Pierce Get taught Okay so we had that. So plot so celts have ten eleven and twenty one and a chance to really really really lay the groundwork. There's a ton of rumors in Boston at the time. They're gonNa Take Tony Parker number twenty one. He came on my podcast. I think in two thousand thirteen in I'd always heard they're gonNA take him so I I asked him and you can find this clip. I think it's on Youtube. How close was it? He said they gave him the hat he still. Does it? Totally know what happened from when they gave him the Celtics at? You're going to get caught up to the stage. To all the sudden the Celtics took Joe Forte. There's been a lot of blame passing. That's gone around Chris. Wallace almost immediately was like that was read our backs. Favor repairing the draft Joe Forte was at the radar. Back Camp I still feel like radar. Back was an eight year old man at that point. Where are you listening to him on? The twenty-first packed like do. What's best for your team? The Parker would if of this because there's so many different things that play out. He falls to twenty-seven the spurs end up winning. How many more titles? Because he falls to twenty-seven could you I don't envy P he's A. Tony Parker is the two thousand seven finals. Mvp with thing. Is I think Dunkin. The over unders probably three for titles. He just should win because he was tim. Duncan I think I think Parker adds to could be. I think that pick adds at least two. Titles 'cause two thousand fourteen also would be one. Yeah and then I would say maybe oh five or seven one of those. He swings one of them. So so that happens. So those were the The big subplots So I have a scrap rating crapshoot rating for every draft. Okay in retrospect what what what kind of crafts you was an a scale one attend. I gave this a seven point. Five seems lower. I'm a redraft standpoint. Yeah it's it's it's because I mean need the two thousand draft is infinity. Draft is a ten. So you know I'm A. I'm a hard grader. For comedy standpoint. Some great ones here. This is a draft telecast where they use rip. Petito as a TNT guest analyst. You love it. Not sure whether they did that he was. Guy Traded Vitality Papago for unprotected lottery. Pick but The Bulls to get current number four. Rick Pitino congratulated Jerry Krause on a successful bluff and I said that and I said in the draft. That's the kiss of death when Patino part of your Patino animus was very fresh in raw. It's fresh and Ron. Two thousand twenty my friend. So that that's the moment when it occurs around At Number Twenty Six amd Albert got selected by the sixers came out of the stands. Yup To my knowledge. The first time this ever happened. Nobody has time. Yeah so it's amazing. Like security to take them out thinking he was like some crazed fan but it was actually saying. Oh Dal unbear- Spoilers Sam. Del Bears in my Redraft Lottery Oh we hope so. He shouldn't a lottery pick for me and then Do later in the draft Patino called. Tony Parker Troy Parker Multiple Times. And then when when Parker actually got taken in the twenty seven th pick at Berkeley and this draft and he said I don't know that much about him but they got him in the first round so he must be a good player. This is when networks just did not care who is doing the draft. It's like you're famous. Huby Brown is in this draft for some reason More of that. Tony Parker pick the lore on one end is definitely read are back Blandford Boston. Not Picking Tony Parker and the lower on the other end is that was the that was the time the young Sam frosty was like I'm staking my claim. This is the guy we should take in San Antonio. That's the young that the legend I you know Sam. I don't know that he's never talked publicly about if he did. I'm sure he went deflect credits everyone else but the story that has been told in the media and elsewhere is that's that's young. Prestia was the guy who brought Tony Parker in for a second workout. 'cause he bombed the first one popped in like him like this. I'm staking my reputation. This is a good player. Let's take him. Would you put that above or below Russell Westbrook in two thousand eight? Which was a huge reach when they did that. The other people that wanted to take Brook Lopez's instead I mean anytime you're in the well it works. It's twenty eight makes it seem more impressive like last pick in the first round but also by then it's sort of like your risk is a little bit lower because if you blow the twentieth pick no one ever remembers that if you blow the fourth pick and it's a reach people really remember that. I thought the Westbrook pick was really Bazi. Resilient I've talked about when did the two thousand draft I loved Westbrook and college never millionaires? Thought he was a top floor pick. He just seemed like a little bit of a project as a guard was unclear. What position he was. He clearly something but I mean they took a had a steph curry and Brook Lopez and people that we knew we were going to be good pros. Yeah I think I think I'm buying into your argument. That the Westbrook pick is ball's ier just because aware took place in the draft. I'm GonNa Steph Curry Kevin Curry and Kevin Advising Steph Curry's in my favorite draft. Yeah we're doing that for your part couple- couples Zack's from Zach. Cram the ringer zone. He said the two thousand one draft six all NBA players. Ninety six is the only draft in the laterally with more sediment. Oh Wow okay. The average player from the two thousand one draft tallied twenty six point one career wind shares the fourth most the latter era behind ninety six three and ninety nine okay. Kwami Brown averaged six point. Six career points third worst for any number one picks since the invention of the shot clock trailing only can yes although a candy no he he put up buckets. He was like double figures for his career. Yeah you're right now. There's one easier one my blanking on it. I'll give you hint hint. Anthony Bennett. Oh wow see I was. I was trying to wrack my brain further back than that. Y- Anthony Bennett. That's the that's the other one. You won't get Larue Martin. The Guy Portland a famous one. Anthony Bennett yet. That's a bad one. That's crazy draft to get out and that's a fun draft Zach says Gilbert Arenas ranks tenth in total career. I've been peaked value. If you look at their best five seasons he ranked second from this draught. That's the biggest difference for any player in any draft in the latter era. While tell you I'll tell you right. Now he's going high on Zach Lowe a drought there you go and then our top drafted this year. Mo- Evans the Immortal Jafari of moon like Jamaica mood and Carlos Arroyo who had like a cup of coffee of saving really good there for a while then became good international eleven fan but I remember remember that one year was that Carlos Arroyo kind of looks like John Stockton Great Fiba Player to okay and then that's it all right. We're doing the redraft. You went the first pick of the second. Pick Golden State draft. Oh boy I'm gonNA give you the first pick your the guest. Okay years giving it to me Do I. It's almost like with David. Stern gave the Knicks. That number. Pick in Nineteen eighty-five then pretended he was pulling out of. I think this is an easy one. PALCA soul is the first pick in the draft for me. Make the case. Do I mean do I have to spell castle? That's my that's my the only competition is Tony Parker To me the only competition is Tony. Parker's paolantonio it's everybody else. I soon. We'll be picking Tony Parker now and I just think size all around skill I was a good defender. At peak and underrated defender at his peak is passing his ability to blend in any offense. Yes it was funny when we do these exercises. I'm kind of drafting like halfway for what the NBA was like then and half way for what the MBA is like. Now so yeah POW POW wows game I think is less fitted to twenty twenty NBA. Then like twenty Parker's gamble though. Tony Parker never became an off the dribble. Three point shooter I just think POW better. I think peak Powell was better than peak. Tony Parker period. That's it that's my case. They've they've made the same number of all star teams. Statistically I mean you know Powell had a few more points whatever I just I just think house better power comes in as a rookie puts up seventeen point six points nine rebounds two blocks a game thirty six point seven minutes a game and Joe. House is just going insane in that. They took me Brown. He's going to these wizards games going. Kwami Brown looks like he needed like four more years of college. Go to college and spend all four years there before something happens. Powell is good immediately and from two thousand to two thousand sixteen which is fifteen years and a thousand fifty five games. He played thirty five minutes a game. He averaged an eighteen and a nine and a half and almost two blocks. Six kids are sentenced to Damas Parker. So I went back and forth really really hard on this and I gave. Parker was number one on my board. Wow I like it. I mean look. It's you can make you can make the argument peak. Tony Parker was a was a an all. Nba Level Player mcpeek. Tony Parker was a great great player. Here's my case and this is just you know I like to hold grudges and to ends and I and sites I never liked how ended the Memphis thing. It really bothered me. I don't think he gets enough of a penalty for in historical thing. I think he was an incredible player. I really liked him. I thought he was the two thousand ten finals. Mvp He never won it. But I thought he was the best part in that series. I thought he was absolutely immense in game. Seven which resigned recently nineteen eighteen rebounds. It's the Mohegan four engaged the most important game of pogo souls career in the NBA. That was egging. I sat behind the basket that they were scoring on in the second half for game seven because I was doing like a live chat. Espn thing which. I wish. I had I wish I had written about that series. Instead the live chat thing but Kazaa was a fucking man in that game he really was and he's going against there's no Kendrick Perkins Perkins is hurt going against Keiji. Who's eighty five percent of Cagey at that point? Eighty three. He's going against a pretty spirited Rasheed. Wallace sutures burned out late. Thirty five minutes laboring but spirited both at first half spirited second-half needs like a lung transfusion and and There's some was there some big baby that year. There's one other guy that had but you know a competitive celtics team sheltered some cameos in that series. Oh my God. I might've famous. There's a famous Sheldon Williams throwing away. Inbounds pass at the end of the half. It might have actually been game seven where everyone where everyone agreed in the moment like gets like Sheldon Williams. You can't just get out of the premise. Like he just needs to leave. I could in my celtics lifetime. That's only happened a few times in a playoff game. Because I remember one time Fred Robertson the ADA Detroit series. And I think I went to the game. It was game. Five was when the Pistons finally flipped it And somebody fouls out Zig Mikhail fouls out and Fred Robertson. That point. Everyone's just done with them. But somebody asked to come in. And there's like a murmuring of you could just twenty thousand people gone man. I hope it doesn't put in Fred Roberts and Fred Roberts stands up on the bench to go in and the crowd goes no. You could honestly hear it but the Sheldon website was same thing. I think he was like minus eight two minutes in game seven. It was so crazy stat so anyway. I have lots of SPEC FOR POW. I actually thought he was underrated Both on those Lakers teams and just as a pro. I didn't like the Memphis thing and so it was that little I felt like it was like dead even between him and Parker. It's funny by coincidence. I just on Saturday did one of those NBA instagram wives. Things with Powell And I taught so I prepared by talking to people that know pal and we're talking about Memphis. New is like super super frustrated in Memphis. The losing they just weren't going anywhere. They want zero playoff games. They got swept every year in the playoffs. He was there but when he got traded. Somebody told me he was like actually unhappy like his first reaction by going to the Lakers. That he was upset at unhappy heads. Kinda like like did I. Did I play this right and then very quickly realize oh? I'm on an awesome team and then POW POW talked about why he felt though. But it's interesting that we remember it is this as this sort of frustrated guide trying to push his way out of town and then when it happens first reaction is sadness more than elation well and. I think there is a fear at that point plan with Kobe which cannot be understated. You know his. He had those three straight years and he was a difficult teammate. And I'm sure he was like. Oh Shit now it's like I got my wish. I'm on a different team. But now the stakes are going to be different. He fit in immediately with that team. Though people people someone on that team told me no one ever ever before or since picked up the triangle offense faster than POW. It was just instant like he got it. He didn't need to be told anything. You understood it immediately. I don't know what the right pick is with this. So so like the Oh seven grizzlies. They had Mike Miller who was eighteen and a half a game forty one percent from three probably his best year that he had a young gay. They had Damon Stoudamire Chucky Atkins Data Chemo Little Dante Jones. Some late Coretta Jones like wasn't a bad team and yet they went twenty two and sixty and I feel like I just don't think Powell is a number one guy now. I'm not sure Tony Parker was either but I the reason I I had parker slightly higher on my board was he was. He was such an unstoppable offensive guy for so long And like weirdly. You look back at the thirteen finals which we both covered. And there's that moment in game six when he's hurt he's playing with like he had a bad near bad remember and he just takes over with three minutes left. He's playing against one of the best teams we've had in the last twenty five years and he takes over the game and it seems like they're going to win because of all the stuff he's doing. I never felt like Powell is as good as Tony was in that kind of stretch or even Tony in two thousand fourteen Tony. Oh seven finals. Tony's Tony's kind of offensive apex was just I felt a tad higher. But I honestly I feel like this is one a. One B. and I don't feel close. Tony was a twenty points scored twice in his career They'll jump shot. The long three never really came but he did eat adds a monster playoff moments in in game one of that series in two thousand thirteen. He hit the jumper dice game. I mean he was a monster that you're I don't you know I think POW was better. They both made all NBA four times. It's it's an argument so it's a IT'S A. It's a tough argument. It's a great one. Tony Two thousand nine twenty two and seven fifty one percent shooting one of the things I liked about him was that he could have an impact and didn't need to have a high usage rate. This was not like a Russell Westbrook situation. This was like he didn't need the ball that much when he gave it to him. He could score his teammates. Even Alaikum I think other teams really hated playing him you know. How many guys can you remember being like? Oh man they they completely throttle Tony. Parker like it did feel. It always felt like you could get wherever he could go. I remember on Instagram. A couple weeks ago. Somebody had a minute long clip of Tony Parker spin moves the three sixty driving three sixties. He has to peak toy breathtaking yet. He would have stretches where despite not having the sort of vertical athleticism or explosiveness of like a Westbrook. He would have stretches where you would think. How does anyone keep this guy with from the rim like you can't keep them away from the basket which is pretty remarkable series not that bigger stronger athletic dude at the rim to yeah so from an all MBA standpoint? Both of these guys made it right. A four-time all NBA. That's something you and I both value the NBA's 'cause that's basically it's an announcement you're either one of the best ten or fifteen guys in the week. It's really the only document we have that. You're doing arguments matters. All right you have the third pick So if we had done this draft correctly or if the teams in the moment democratically Washington would've had POW Gusau and then. We're Tony Parker to the clippers would grade from the third pick. Seems pretty obvious to me but I am interested to see what you do here. Well I'M GONNA I'm gonNA reach a little bit because he didn't have the best career of of All of these that are candidates for this pick But I'm going with the Zach cramped peak value method. I'm picking Gilbert Arenas because I know that Gilbert Arenas and in his prime now maybe I can't prevent the knee injuries. I Dunno I can maybe prevent some of the other unpleasantness that derailed his career in Washington. Yeah but I know if I'm drafting like I said halfway halfway for now I know I can plug peak Gilbert Arenas new NBA offense and he can run fifty pick and rolls again. Make off the dribble threes and be a guy that is going to make my team on offense at least really really good and so. I'm drafting for peak value on picking Gobert arenas third. I remembered reading some calm when he was on the warriors and kind of not dismissing him but just not gave him credit for being really an essay yet and getting a couple impassioned emails back when people said civilly bills. Instead of just being like you fucking Sauk. Sac Talk You. This is the era of like. Hey I'm GonNa send what my favorite thoughtful email that he might have gotten this wrong and I got all these emails from the worst fans are saying. Hey you should watch Gilbert that Gilbert's coming on in a real way like something's happening here and at that point the worst socked There was really no reason to watch him on league. Pass unless I was like going into the game or they're on TNT or something on my guard. I'll I'll Gilbert a whirl and it was like. Oh what's this going to be? He's going to be a restricted free agent member. They ain't. They changed the rules because of his restricted. Free Agency there is now the Gilbert Arenas rule right so Washington comes in. They come flying in off the top rope and they grab Gilbert and houses like what's going on Mike House I've been. I watched this guy a couple times. This guy is. This is an amazing move for you. You might have gotten whatever but he was actually turned into a superstar like there is probably a two year stretch there where he is on the level of t. Mac and all these guys. And what's interesting is. I actually think Pete. Gilbert was a higher level than any season Vince. Carter had except for that one awesome house one season. Hey honestly like if you're just talking about who did more offensively Euler. Gobert Gilbert Jr is brought more of the table. Pete Gilbert was twenty nine and six on like eight threes or seven threes a game which in two thousand and sixty thousand seven. There weren't many people shooting seven or eight threes. A game We'll look at look at his two thousand six season and tell me the two things that jump out seven threes again. Seven attempted threes again. Thirty seven percent and ten free throws Ten game so he's basically he's hardened james hearted two thousand six but there's no possessions back that people remember how slow was back then twenty nine and six and so like the the hardest thing to find in the NBA is a legitimate offensive fulcrum who can be the number one guy every possession on an above average offense. I was he your pick for three at three You have the floor. It was either him or Joe. Johnson Gilbert for three years from five toast. Seven was twenty eight and six years peak value. And I'm just. I'm imagining that. My team has a healthy team culture. We're going to nurture all we're GONNA make all the right decisions off the floor on the floor. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA WE'RE NOT GONNA be we're not going to be the jail blazers we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA WHO's relevant for one of the Pixel. It's coming up a we're GONNA have a good culture. I'm going to get the best Gilbert Arenas for a decent amount of time. Oh six that series against Cleveland. That was just Kinda Of Really Fun Playoffs and that was a fun series six games. He plays forty seven point three minutes a game. Ridiculous in the six playoff games. Thirty four points. A game lead the lead the player but went toe to toe with With Brian and what are the things I liked about him and where I think you know he was all MBA third team? Third Team Second Team for three straight years. Vince was Vince. Doesn't have anything like that. Three or stretch one of the things I liked about him is he really honestly believed. He was better than Lebron James in the pleasures. Those wizards teams were just so they wanted all of it. They want they wanted everything. Bring everything on. I think I don't think that's the wrong. Pick 'cause you you at least know you're getting four top fifteen seasons of guy. I thought I had Joe Johnson kind of three eight three B with Gobert. Couple things Joe He. He made seven all star teams which I was shocked by. He only made one third team on bay. His name is on. It is almost seven time. All Star. Joe Johnson. I mean that's almost like how people refer to him for that reason because people on the all stars next to each other like how did he make the spending all star teams the Job Johnson? The Joe Johnson Hall of fame debate is going to be frisky. It's GONNA BE A. There's going to be people who are like Joe Johnson. And then they're going to be like well twenty thousand point seven. All Star Games. Whatever whatever it is. There's it's going to be like if you you have to let in Joe Johnson and Tom Chambers. If you're letting Joe Johnson Tom Chambers then has to get in I think but His First Five Hawks seasons twenty two five and six I was shocked by his stats on the o five sons. A team that I really loved watching he He was forty seven percent from three that year. Taken like five game and when he gets hurt That to me. That's the big. What if Joe Johnson in the case for him for being the third pick in this draft is if he just stays with Steve Dash? Just how about this? Stay with the best point guard and one of the best teammates we've had in the last thirty years on a style that's uniquely suited to all the things. You're good at to stay there. Stay there and be in contention. He goes Atlanta. And it's just like or pay or a him if the blame the sun's pay him keep him do whatever it takes to keep him. 'cause it is remarkable that you know the Celtics stratum is a rookie in that deal. We talked about earlier and then the son's when he's still very young are like yeah or did they just can't work it out and so he ends up on this sort of like it does. Nba Backwater at the time. The hawks get really good. That hawks team like everyone sort of looks at them as this poster team for like upper crust mediocrity like. It'll you don't Wanna be the Joe Johnson Hawk skin out in the second round all the time but like that was a good team. There's a there's a good NBA team and he was well. The keep thing with Joe Johnson the contract kind of overwhelmed half of his career. He made so much money and it was so ridiculous that he just became overrated and he wasn't over e game based on what I want for the two guard position Here's a guy who can score twenty two twenty two points a game and he'll make four out of every ten threes like that good. That's what makes the next five or six picks interesting. Is that drafting from the perspective of twenty twenty. You have Joe Johnson. Richard Jefferson. Jane Batty Jason Richardson Wings. Who like now you'd be like? Yeah Joe Johnson played two three four like they all shoot. Threes there multi positional. And then you have like you have some guys who are more old school like Zebo or Tyson Chandler. Like how do you but had really great career? So how? I'm curious to see how we valued those sort of attributes. The Joe Johnson thing was the Celtics is tough because you just like came in if him and Paul Pierce together. It's not exactly the same but it's it's reminiscent of the tatum Brown Combo they have now or every team in the league would be like. Oh I'd love to have to win guys like that. I just build around those guys for ten years in you look back retroactively to go. They'd Paul Pierce Joe Johnson. And they just had that for twelve years. That seems like they should want to do that. And he was gone after fifty. Yeah I had Joe Johnson forth on my board after arena so we have the same top four guys in a different order but I joe Johnson for all right. So you're up you're got the fifth pick I went back and forth a lot of times on this for the reasons I just talked about about position on versatility and all that but in the end I just thought the raw talent of Zach Randolph couldn't be denied at this pick and even though he's not sexy in the position versatility shooting threes. He actually got off to quite a slow start in his career in Portland but I think at some point you just have to say he's the best guy of these guys he's the most talented guy and I'll find a way either to play inside out around him or maybe all coax him into shooting threes way earlier in his career than didn't really shoot threes into the last couple years of his career. Probably could have been a decent three point shooter if teams had actually directed his game that way and I will have a good healthy culture on my team for Young Zach. Randolph there is not gonNA be jail. Blazers Shenanigans going on so I- debated RJ debated batty as sort of like al-shabaab. Da Does win you know I debated a couple of other guys but I just went at some point. Eight straight years averaging eighteen points a game just a problem Zach. Randolf was a problem and so I went Zebo. I had him there as well. Twenty ten guy for from two thousand Ford through two thousand eleven the thing. So it's funny. He got he's at Portland. Gets traded is a key traits form. Everybody's like well that's the dumbest thing ever GonNa play Isaiah. Nettie Your Eddy Curry Zach randolf together and Isaiah was doing that. Whole the rest of the league's getting faster and has more shooting ominous zig the other way. I'M GOING TO GET BIGGER. And it was a disaster immediate going bully ball and it was like wow the and all the relatively smart basketball people like. He can't play those guys together. There'll never work defensively. You'RE GONNA get destroyed like please don't do that. He tried it. I went back and read old clips and it was. It was a trip to see New York Times. Era Howard back after twenty games writing. I guess scouts around the League are like one of these guys has to come off the bench. Because it's not working out with Eddie. Korean Zach Randolph. And like David Lee is getting lost in the shuffle. It's a disaster foof so he gets traded the clippers. I had season tickets. That was the era almost gave up my season tickets. After the season I run a diary of going to a game where it ends with their down to Zach Randolph. Airballs twenty nine footer. Coming out of a timeout to the game at that point there was Zach Randolph. Stock was like a penny. I would have not wanted Zach Randolph. Stock I was just like this guy's a loser puts a empty calories stats on bad teams. And that's where I'm landing but you look at that Memphis. He GOES TO MEMPHIS. Got Memphis. Got Him and it's just a straight salary like please take saccharin up. There were Quentin. Richardson was in that dealers. Like other stuff but Memphis got him for essentially free right they get him but I think that two thousand eleven season He's twenty and twelve and it goes into the playoffs and this is one of the loss. Great playoff upsets. 'cause we the Spurs now from eleven through fourteen. There's this second spurs run that's happening and in eleven they get just derailed by this crazy Memphis team. That's terrible matchup for them. For whatever reason I think they easily could have made the finals at year. Two thousand twelve. They're about to make the finals. And Okay see taps into this unbelievable potential they Dan. I'm not making it two thousand thirteen. They're up five with twenty seconds left. Blow it and then two thousand fourteen. They finally win but man. If you look back at that spurs run the over under for titles is easily to. It might even be two and a half. Considering what else happened in the League at that point and this two thousand eleven it was fucking bonkers memphis not only upset them. It was legitimate. It was like if those teams played twenty times. Eddie Memphis wins like fourteen or fifty. And just everything about it was a bad match up but a Jew. Nobody was injured and I believe the last game of the regular season that year. He heard his arm against Phoenix. I want to say miss the first game of that series in and but what people don't remember as much is the Spurs. Were coming off first round loss in. Oh nine getting drilled off the floor by the sons and the second round two thousand ten then they win sixty one gains in its discreet feel-good story and they lose in the first round. Yeah nobody's injured. There's like you know like some extenuating circumstances but that series after those two previous playoff series. That was a time when people were like. Maybe that's it like that. Losing a one eight series. Who's like people didn't see the twelve thirteen fourteen? Run COMING AFTER THAT SO I don't look at that necessarily as like one continuous run. I look at two thousand twelve particularly when they got. Do as the start of sort of a new identity of what the spurs were going to be. And you could see sprinkling you could. You could see coming in two thousand ten twenty eleven but when they lost that series that was when people most started loudly saying maybe it says over like maybe they're they're run as a championship. Contender is over and that totally wrong. They add collide. That summer. To the draft isn't isn't all sin Alzheimer Asphalt Alzheimer. I still think there's a world where the Spurs make the finals in eleven 'cause then the other thing that happened was member they're talking about. Do we trade? Tony Parker. Tony Parker might be the table. They ended up trading George show instead but there was a whole case for a while. They just lost the first round again. Got Shake it up. Maybe they maybe Parker as the most values in his prime and they flip show for the rest of that series was also the Marcus. All breakout series. Fourteen and twelve against the spurs in that series. And then just classic Tony Allen trick or treat toy kind of evolved into the The full fledged Tony. All right so I guess you got to six pick and now it gets really interesting so we went Palca Saal Tony Parker Gilbert Arenas Joe Johnson Zach Randolph. I'm taking Tyson Chandler with the six pack. Oh and here's my case. I think his career if you played it twenty times this is probably one of the worst versions of it. He goes to that Weird Chicago team. nothing goes right. Just you know hurts his back. That's a huge setback. gets traded to New Orleans with Chris. Paul great this is this is GonNa be awesome has a couple of good New Orleans years for them in. Oh eight he was almost. He was twelve and twelve regular season Sixty two percent shooting and then at some point he ends up on. Its UP ON CHARLOTTE. Do you remember why he ended UP ON CHARLOTTE? Do we have a record of that? Did he sign with them? transactions own involved traded at traded straight. Up for Mecca. Okeafor Makoko for this right. Yeah and up in Charlotte but then if you remember. There's this unbelievable fork in the road with him. Were okay for him. Yeah and then vetoes the trade because of a physical and he almost ends up on this team with the Baka durant and Westbrook as the Kendrick Perkins piece they would have kept Jeff. Green Trade for somewhere else says a couple of forks in the road there where I just feel like man in a different situation. He's better asked. Think as like a screen enroll guy in two thousand twenty. If you take mid-2000s Tyson Chandler. I think something happens there to other cases for him he's thirteen mile. Mba in two thousand twelve for the Knicks and then in the in the Dallas series even though the stats don't really measure the full impact. He's one of the reasons they won. That Dow the Miami Finals with a the defense of him and Marianne and just the way there was all the while. He was insanely good in those finals. Defensive Yeah Insanely Good. Anyone defensive player of the year once for the next Probably so he's basically he's basically a ten and ten from the two thousand three season all the way through two thousand seventeen. He's eleven and twelve for those fifteen years. And I just I like the longevity and I do think that. And he's also a great teammate. Beloved teammate by all counts Right Jeffrey. Here not a lot of bad. Tyson Chandler stuff out there. I was probably low rough. Phoenix was rough I you know Dallas Round two. He had a he had moments in Dallas round. Two for the two thousand fourteen fifteen mavs. I ended up. He's basically at a different point in his career at that point. Yeah I ended up taking him much lower than not much lower but a few spots lower than you did because I think you nailed it right the first thing you said if you play out his career this is one of the worst versions of it like he wasn't good in Chicago. It's like if you boil down. Tyson Chandler Career. The heiser really high like he's an NBA champion. Uses the defensive player. There is a criticize the keystone of an NBA championship defense. But his game never changed it all right like Tyson Chandler. This is how you have to play on offense. He just has to screen and roll. That's it you can't play any other style. We can't do anything else but he did. Great and you're really getting like if you boil it down. He had five good seasons. Maybe six the to New Orleans Seasons C. P. and then Dallas Knicks Knicks after that the decline Kinda came fast and given his his one dimensionality on offense and his relatively may be abbreviated peak. I had him a little bit lower but I loved Ice Chandler. So I you know I. I don't feel strongly about my six seven eight nine order but I did. I had him lower than you. The one thing I one thing with channel forgot to mention I think if he had a really good point guard it's a little light dandruff Jordan st and Marcus Camby. There's certain guys is like if if you if they're just the recipient of somebody else's brilliant stay actually are going to be much better and the stuff. I thought he was great on those orlands teams. But if you're a lot catcher and you're playing at that time with the best lob throw in the NBA and David Wests. Stretch FOR INSTALL. Yaacob pitches involved like you're just going to be rolling into open space. And you're going to thrive and same thing with maps like smart offense dirk at the four like you're going to be rolling open space. But think about him on the as view took two thousand Chandler and put him on that two thousand Twenty Lakers team in the Dwight. Howard Chevelle spot. That's like the ultimate situation firm. Anyway all right. You're up seven thick I went now. You get since you've taken Tyson Chandler off the board. Now you get three wings who I have all right next to each other and Richard Jefferson And Jason Johnson. I flirted with taking batty a here. Because of just how long he was like a an elite stopper on defense in one of sort of not original but one of the version. Two Point Zero of three and D guys But I just I I went with Richard Jefferson in this spot. Because I how I I just thought he's he's Twenty points scored three times in his career. Seven straight years. Fifteen plus feel like decent defender that I could have got to defend it in elite level of in like multi-positional no all star teams on these guys are made any all star teams But I just thought upside I'm taking. Rj is a two way player who can create off the dribble and run in transition. Maybe post the occasional mismatch can do more on offense and Shane. Batty can do was a good three point shooter so I went upside of Richard Jefferson. Plus because you get old you get old. Richard Jefferson. You get two thousand. Sixteen Finals Cagey veteran. Who can actually play a game seven? Richard Jefferson the but the like from age twenty nine to that finals was rough for Richard. Like the the decline happened. It came Fast Spurs your Richard Jefferson. Warriors Your Richardson. Lega wasn't it wasn't great for a while so I went but I went. Rj in this spot at seven. Beloved Teammates I. I thought the I had Jason Richardson. The highest of those three. I'M GONNA make I had. I had them the lowest those three. I'll be interested. Maybe we should do a twitter vote. Who would you in the redraft? We could put those three guys. 'cause I I had the same thing I had. Those three guys together is trying to figure it out. Here is the case for Richardson. So you take Richardson eight them. In the end this March I'm taking him eighth Oh seven warriors at some. He had some Monster Games in the. We believe run electric team in the playoffs. Eleven playoff games thirty nine minutes a game. He was nineteen and seven took seven and a half threes. A game of the. Oh seven playoffs so I just felt like if you're extending forward until we play basketball now it'd be even better 'cause you know he's jacking up the thing that really pushed it over the top for me other than you know. I just think he was a better. The Best Player of those three guys like just you know he averaged twenty two a game golden state no sex for seven five games but I remember I was friends with Steve Kerr by the time. The two thousand ten sons team really rolled into a team. That almost made the finals and unexpectedly in lots of ways and I remember when they traded for Richardson. Just talking to Steve about it at the time and he was like this guy's such a good player we had no idea and I knew Nash a little bit at that point because we're doing thirty and he was like we had no idea rich. Was this good. He just not only does he fit in with all this stuff we love to but we can actually like throwing the ball and he can create a shot and you look at the The playoffs that year they played sixteen playoff games. He was twenty and five forty seven point five percent from three. So He's another guy that I if you played his career twenty times. I wonder how many times there's a better version of what we ended up with. Where basically he's he's stayed in Charlotte for the first eight years of his career. Those teams sucked. I don't know I don't quibble with it. I you could throw these three wings in any order you want. I had them all ahead of ice in Chandler. Just because I'm drafting with a little bit of an eye on twenty twenty versatility I just I I just. I never quite trusted Jason Bridgeton. Big Spot I just remember summaries. I never I just never. Maybe I'm maybe the missed box out. He had for Phoenix in game. Five of those conference finals when are test tips in the Kobe? Air Ball his color. Neva's standards Unifem but the we believe thing was like found money that was just feel good fun times and they were a really good team I just I just kind of never trusted Jason. Richardson like a just a big big. Big Spot never trusted them so I had. I had him after bad here so I will then take batty with what we had the ninth bake. I'll take batty knife. Can I give you two Trades Jason? Richardson was involved. But they're easy is involved in a huge trade with Gilbert Arenas so in two thousand eight Richardson and Jared Dudley to Phoenix for Raja Bell. Boris diaw Sean. Single Terry Steve Curtis winning. Winning trade gets basically the best two guys that are trade. Because Boris Boris kind of create. A little bit there and then in two thousand ten December. He's traded with Earl Clark and heater Turkoglu to Orlando for Vince. Carter Marsin Cortott Michael Patriots. And a two thousand eleven. I A lot of stuff in that trade. I don't even remember that he goes. That's that's a three team trade in Gilbert Arenas in that trade to Orlando as well That's there's a whole bunch of stuff going that's not in my basketball reference page. Then he's also he was in the insane trade Right near the end of the two thousand twelve Olympics when all the sudden Dwight Howard was traded. You look at it in the white our trade. There's so many names in that trade. The on his Basketball reference page. It's like a giant paragraph like a war and peace pair of everything up in front of you. Yeah Batty Ninth Pick. I think it's fair. That gets good value. I think Couple things have to be mentioned. Just quick with him. He's basically the the George Washington of advanced metric basketball players right. The Michael Lewis. Piece about why Daryl chose him over route again. That's all star right. He becomes the moneyball baseball. Whoever the guys on the Oakland A.'s were Michael Lewis wrote about for that Scott Aberg I his two thousand twelve finals game. Abs ARE TWO THOUSAND. Thirteen finals game seven. They needed somebody to get hot. Who Wasn't Lebron James? Somebody to make some threes. Who's either GONNA BE HIM? Mario chalmers Array Allen and if one of those three guys that have made some threes. They're losing and he got hot but remember. We were working that year in member. We talked to him during that finals member. How bummed out he was. He was saying you went. You went. He was like barely playing. And then we were asking him like what's going on man you cool and he just had that look like there's so much I wanna say but I'm not WANNA upset the apple cart but well. Let's fuck man. I'm not playing. Look at this game log last. Three Games Against Indiana and the conference finals eight minutes. Four minutes D. N. P. I four games of the final six minutes. Five minutes eight minutes eight minutes. Then he's up to seventeen twelve and then in game seven twenty nine minutes six threes end. Razi game seven and honestly. That's why they win. Because that game was was a two point game with a minute left at say that tonio the ball and if he doesn't make fig if he goes oh for eight or one for eight they lose so so I I had him. I think shame bad is a winning basketball player so I had him a little harder but I will say I had him seventh on my board but I will gladly accept him with the Ninth. Pick in this draft. I handler in Richardson. Yeah I went back. I went. Rj Six body seven j rich eight Tyson Chandler nine. I can't wait to see who you pick ten well for everyone scoring at home. There's now a drop off. We have now and as the GER Joan Wallace memo. Ochre trae Murphy Eddie. Curry Vlad. Red Bandaged kwami Brown sandown. Bear Jamaal Tinsley Earl Watson Carlos Arroyo. Yeah we can we can probably be. Yeah we're we're we're we're in the homestretch. I I really enjoyed memo for getting ahead. I thought I was going to reach him tense. He's a no brainer Ted Fiqh. It's it's a guy that for a couple years there was was first of all. He finished his career as a fourteen. And Seven. Which I was surprised by. But then you look at some of the three-point Stats. Yeah an an. Oa to nine combined. Let's throw in two thousand ten to actually So three years on Utah competitive teams and he's forty percent from three taking three point three a Gabe fifteen seven. Be think like nowadays a basketball. He'd be like coveted right teams. After Momma memo core he would be like he was and now would be even more in elites like a really good stretch. Five like memo car was really good stretch. Five that's what he would be. He'd be bombing threes. He would be on offense. He would be Brook Lopez's except he would be taking twice as many threes on defense you would not be Brook Lopez but that he would be a dangerous dangerous player so I had him tenth. No no brainer. Two Thousand Eight playoffs twelve games. They lose to the Lakers round two fifteen and twelve. Does Utah Fun with Boozer and Okoro and de well. Those are fun teams. Fifteen and twelve took four point. Three three is a game thirty seven percent from three so well ahead of his time. Who Knew Memo car a Mike? Buddha Holzer kind of coach would get him today and be like you're taking twelve threes again. You'RE GONNA put pick and pop every play and you're gonNA take a million threes and he got hurt but he's the other piece with him was he was on the Pistons Originally Yup and they kind of fucked it up and they got rid of him and he's somebody that would have helped them in the mid to thousands as they you know went down some of the bigger. He's one of those guys. Where if you have him and you keep him. You're able to transition more smoothly from one era to the next without as much of a a drop off so. I had him tenth to eleventh by the way he played in an all star game. Scott memo was good like I thought about. I thought almost half for fun and have for serious. I thought about taking him even higher than this. So the The Pistons let him go for that summer. They couldn't. I remember. There was something where they could of locked him down and just decided not to It's it's hard when you're that good to carry guys. Who you think are ready to help you win. Immediately but Memo occur was a good. Nba player tours. Kill I believe he also tore his Achilles and that sort of derailed his his His lawyer I forgot he got. He got a ring and four. He played eleven five minutes a game on that. Oh for I am notation player. I have no recollection of one thing. He did in the O. Four finals I watched two of the Games recently. I don't don't remember. They did all right. Who Do you have a? What is this eleven yeah eleven? I went Gerald Wallace Just just if we could ever get the shooting a little better the value like just a guy who can guard everywhere and was you off the court I think The stories about his diet in his habits are pretty. Well known like I but I think on my team we would have been ahead of the curve with personal chefs like delivering stuff to his house. In the off season I would Gerald Wallace a better three point shooter. And just you throw in the defense. Like Joe Walsh was good man. I I have no. I'm fine with him at this pick. What was I? Don't remember? The diet stories is just an ox. Guy Yeah I think he I was a bad eater and And I would have rectified. That he was a really good point when he when he kinda declined. Fast people were yeah. People in the League were not surprised that he declined fast like after age thirty. So he got Rod Strickland Itis. Maybe there was. I was playing fantasy all all the two thousand two thousand ten season he had. He had some good Charlotte. Charlotte teams. Were Weird. They competent there for a couple of years. Captain Jack was involved there a little bit. Yeah but he. He averaged ten rebounds. A game in two thousand ten is eighteen and Ted but I remember hearing a couple of games that year. We have twenty five rebounds or like some crazy and everybody Jerry Wallace. He's see how little you put a little guy on him. He could mash him in the post. Like Prime Gerald Wallace could do a lot of stuff. We can't let Gerald while section of the podcast go without bringing up one other piece Damian Lillard now three player draft three per draft for guy. Billy King. Have you have you ever told the story in a podcast of would of the billy king story or does that she would just do it now? Like the eighty minute mark billy. I have reconciled Reconciled a strong we never like non reconciled but He was one of several NBA figures. Who did not like me on first blush because of you. It had nothing to do with me. It's just that I worked granted. I had the nerve to take a paycheck from you. Who put him in the atrocious? Gm summit as just a regular. He's like a star of the atrocious. Pm Seven Multiple Times. So I it was it was. It was very clear to me that I was being hated. Vicariously us not the only NBA executive to do this It was made no. It was made very clear to me that I was not a friendly presence at the Barclays Center for a little bit. But we got over it. We got over it. He's a very nice guy but Yeah He. He was not the only one and he was friendlier than the other ones. Who who took their anti bill cinnamon out on me. You know it's funny. I always felt like I was job. Performance mean at that point especially like the Li- from like two thousand mid two thousand nine. I don't remember like getting Super Personal. Like with billy king was just like this guy did a bad job like the Joe. Walsh trade is it negligent trade. You're doing your your trading for this guy's contract Portland's delighted to get rid of for any first round pick because you're not even putting the right protections. 'cause de will needed veteran help and like your wallace. The bad trade too stuffy didn't phillies before he got outstare. Like kinda indefensible now. I'm getting mad. The bill king was mad at me. How dare you mad at me for All right Twelve pick only one guy on my board and then it gets dark. I thought Troy Murphy and a couple of good year we are we are in lockstep last. Step Troy Murphy. Is like the the slightly. Jv memo or if you were today people would just make an stretch five. You would shoot a ton of threes. And he was a really good shooter so as you know. My Dad loved any left-handed white guy who reminded him of Dave Collins was. Is The quickest way to my dad's. My Dad was very upset. When they didn't take Troy Murphy with the eleventh pick in two thousand one the Celtics and then as it became pretty clear pretty quickly. That Q Jake Brown was destined for Yugoslavia or Spain or Russia. Or whatever country? Who's GONNA playing in? There is a true murphy year. Oh five yeah. He puts up fifteen eleven for Golden State and sheets almost forty percent from three to sticky. Good three point shooter And then became openly. Good when he got to Indiana 'cause they actually had him shoot the threes and my dad was just furious about Jerry. Murphy you would have thought Troy Murphy was like the next Larry. Bird some man. We miss that. So his career didn't quite pan out that way but man if you look at his two thousand nine season when he's fourteen and twelve and he's taken five threes agape shooting forty five percent from three first career is thirty nine percent three point shooter. A he would have had a better art now. So Trey Murphy underrated yeah. I had him no easily twelfth. Pick and I thought about taking them higher but I just couldn't but yeah he would just shoot a lot of threes. That's why my thirteenth pick. We're getting we're entering the part of the draft where I'm just defaulting to like. Can you do one thing really well in his? That one's shooting right sad so I took a thirteenth. I took Radovich because I was just like I know this guy plugin plays he's a four. You can shoot threes like could he be `Davis Britan's now and NBA just launched tons of threes. Not Quite that quick release may be but I just default into. I know what this guy is. He's good at the most important thing. I'm taking them. Career thirty eight percent three point shooter asset had thirteenth. So now I had the last pick unless you WANNA fifty and pick no so. It's basically Eddie courier. Sam Down Bear so a two enticing choices Sam Poise eight hundred eighty six games peaking with a ten in ten on the sixers Bounced around in a really insane way somehow played for six teams Eddie. The case for him is that that that one eddy curry season where he is falling apart quickly. That one season that. Oh five bowls where he's putting up sixteen game in twenty eight minutes But I mean that. You just can't win with Eddy Curry some taking Sam Dalbar I we had. I had Delaware Fourteen. I think he was a A good all around player. Who could do good shot? Blocker had a little bit of touch like a tiny bit of touch that if nurtured correctly could have been like a decent pick and pop touch Right ran the floor. Good feel for the game. I took him over Eddy. Curry Eddy Curry. The plus minus stats were ugly. Even when he was put up numbers Just because defensively. I didn't I didn't know how to take into account the health issues. That were the reason. The Bulls ended up trading up to the Knicks. Like an all time New York. Next bad trade But I took in Brazil so that so that means picks one and four do not make our revised top fourteen kwami brand or eddy curry not to mention Eddie Griffin and Tucson a Job Rodney. White. He drink brown all fall out of Eddie Griffin off. Which I did I didn't know what to do with Eddie Griffin but they all fought the lottery so we went Kazaa. One Parker two arenas three Joe Johnson four Zach Randolph Five Chandler six Richard Jefferson Seven. J Rich Eight. Shame bad ADENINE. Yes memo ochre. Big winner this pod. Ten Joe Ross. Eleven Troy Murphy. Twelve Rodman Ridge. Thirteen down bear fourteen before we go. Which guy have you still not given up on yet from this draft? Even though all of their careers are over as anyone. You're still kind of holding out hope for This is a great question I always have soft spot for Jamaal Tinsley. Who was the twenty seventh pick in this draft and had some decent years in the NBA in could really pass. So obviously he was a major participant in the malice in the palace. And some other stuff but I'm going I'm still interested in Jamaal Tinsley so mine is I thought that was a great pick. I remember there was a Jamaal. Tinsley Gamer had like at least twenty two assists in a game or some crazy number number. My Guys Bobby Simmons. I not just as easy namesake. Bobby Simmons from you but I just wanted to say in Two thousand five for the QUIP. Sixteen and six forty three point. Five percent from three granted didn't take a ton of threes and then Milwaukee signed him he cashed in And forty two percent from three that year and then he got hurt and his crew was never the same but I really liked. It was a three indeed guy. I think he's the kind of guy that you know. He could have had a Marvin Williams type career where he just played for fifteen years and was a good teammate and made some threes it just kept going and going going gone but he got hurt and it's so funny like guys get Guy One injury. It's just your career's over and it's so unfair. Some guys that happens to other guys are fine like even in the Michael Jordan the documentary. That is coming out next week. He breaks his foot as as a second year guy and like what if he had just continued have problems with that foot for the rest of his career. And we never Michael Jordan used ever know so I feel bad for him because I thought he was good. I if people could've bet preemptively on this podcast they could have won a lot of money I think on. Do they get through ninety minutes without the words? Brian SCALLOP GREENIE. Being uttered at any moment the thirty fifth pick in this draft. Not that he was going to be a candidate for top fourteen given his celtics ties then and now as an announcer you would think scowl one of the Red Mambas would would come up in this. Discussion somehow is probably a top fifteen salary guy from this draft who that's because e e here that one contractor where he made like fifty million for five years or something curry ended up making close to one hundred million. I'm sure Chandler made a Shitload Gobert. Had that one crazy crazy contract that than Otis Smith ended up trading for which was one of the dumbest moves of all time But yeah some guys from this draught cashed. Tony Parker probably at three different fifty to sixty million dollar deals at some point. Probably he probably made in the one fifty to one seventy trans show. Yeah there we go. That was the draft was a fun draft so down the road bringing do. Oh nine with you on your on your part to my favorite o-9 is my in recent vintage. Oh nine is just I just Kinda WanNa redraft the whole thing for like four hours that hold that whole draft is like insane and I love every second because I'm looking forward to that Zach Lowe. Glad you're staying safe. Thanks for coming on pleasures. Always always a pleasure my friend. Thanks for listening to the two thousand one redraft ables with Being Zach Lowe. Stay tuned on this feed will be running at least a couple more redraft ables including the two thousand three redraft with my old nemesis frenemy. Friend Chad Ford. This was the first draft. We really battled over. That's coming up later And you can listen to his brand new podcast that he just launched two if you want to hear even more draft content there. Don't forget about the Bill Simmons. Pack has don't forget about the Rewatch ables where we had We have a couple of new ones this week. Total recalls already up and made. The State is coming later this week in the next week. It's going to get super walk. Stay tuned for that. And that's it stay safe.