Effectively Wild Episode 1545: Boogie Mornings
fast fast. Hello and welcome to episode fifteen forty five effectively wild a fan graphs baseball podcast brought to you by our Patriot. Supporters I meg rally a fan graphs and I enjoined as always Ben. Limburg of the ring are Ben. How're you doing? Well how are you doing okay? Well people join shortly by. Espn's John Blue Giambi one of the best baseball. Broadcasters out there I think we would both agree and he has been one of the American voices of the K B O for the past few weeks. And we're going to talk to him about that. Whole experience of learning a new league and calling games from thousands of miles away and what his setup is like and what the future of remote broadcasting is but just for a few minutes before we get to bootleg. I felt down a bit of a rabbit hole yesterday. And now I WANNA drag everyone else down with me if you will in Tulsa so we got an email from a listener named Andrew Morris History Professor at Cal poly and. He wanted to alert us to a book that he wrote about ten years ago. The history of baseball in Taiwan. It's called Colonial Project. National game a history of baseball in Taiwan but he also included a little tidbit. That really caught my attention and sent me on a search so he wanted to pass along something. That's on the back of the nineteen seventy five tops. Her Washington baseball card. We haven't talked about her Washington wild but he is of course the designated runner that Oakland Athletics Owner Charlie Finley. The visionary eccentric and mercurial owner decided to employees for the nineteen seventy four and part of the nineteen seventy five season and he was an accomplished trek star and he hadn't played baseball since high school but they stuck him in a uniform and they said Hey. Go run be are designated pinch-runner. There was some resistance to the idea because he had almost no baseball skills. And this guy was really fast of course but still there's more than speed that goes into base running and so people doubted that he could actually be a baseball player as opposed to just a sprinter and the returns were pretty mixed. Which is why. I really was sort of surprised to see that. On the back of this nineteen seventy five tops card so there are three sentences here it says signed by Oakland owner. Charles Finley strictly for pinch running duties last season and in fact. I think this is the only baseball card. That has a player listed at the position. Pinch-runner then the second sentences. Her was personally responsible for winning. Nine Games for the as in nineteen seventy four with speed and then it just moves right along without any citation or anything for that and says he's a holder of world. Indoor records for fifty yard dash five seconds flat and sixty yard dash five point eight seconds but really I kinda got hung up on that middle sentence there because that's a pretty bold claim. Herb was personally responsible for winning. Nine Games for the as in nineteen seventy four with his speed. The is won the World Series. That you're the only one ninety games in the regular season so this card is claiming without any kind of support that her Washington personally won one out of every ten games for the as that. You're which is a pretty bold claim and so I wanted to dig into how the card writer came up with this and what it could possibly be based on because I collect all of the examples that I can find of pre wins above replacement. Instances of people saying that so and so was worth this many wins or this or that was worth that many wins because it seems like before war you could just kind of throw numbers out there in when we did episode fifteen hundred. This is one of the things that I drafted that I like about baseball. Was that people would just come up with these wild estimates of what things were worth because other than the number of team wins. They didn't really have anything to to judge on. So for instance Whitey Herzog went said a good third base coach can win sixteen or Seventeen Games a season for his club. Scher Okay and in our side and the muscle there's a scout on Dawson's a better all round player but Omar Marino saves our ballclub fifty doubles twenty triples a year. That would go by most fielder. Said if you add up the value. Fifty doubles twenty triples. That's way more than any fielder could possibly be worth. And then there's an Ozzie. Smith quote where he said. I may not drive in one hundred runs each year but I can prevent one hundred runs from scoring against us. Which as good as Ozzie Smith was even that unless you're comparing to know shortstop at all that seems like a stretch and Phil Rogers. The writer relayed that An. Al Manager had told him that Yvonne Rodriguez saved the Rangers. One run per game which is a lot of runs over the course of season if he added up and in summer of forty. Nine David Halberstam. Wrote no one valued Phil Rizzuto more than Yankees pitchers off? Who's earned run averages? He was saving a half run or more. Which again if you do the math there. If he's saving all the pitchers on his team have run an IRA that would be an immensely improbably valuable defender. And there's one that fire. Joe Morgan highlighted in two thousand five. Where then twins manager Ron Gardenhire said of Louis Castio? He's worth fifteen wins. Potentially and guard justified. This saying we lost thirty one run games last year with Louise's ability to get on base steel run score runs and play defense. A guy like that can make a difference in at least half those one run games going the other way. That's SORTA shoddy math. Maybe but but that's the genre and I love these quotes because it's just like you could say anything and who could really disprove you because there was no real objective benchmark that you could judge against and there's also a earl weaver one where actually Roger Angell wrote that. He thought that weaver wins ten or a dozen extra games for his club every year on pure cogitate in and I guess we still don't have manager seems like a bit of a stretch. Anyway I have the small but growing collection of these quotes and so now I have added this tops quote about her Washington to my collection so I tried to figure out. Okay what could this be based on it? And I figured we'll nine wins. Maybe that's like the Ron Gardenhire. Least Castio thing. Maybe it's like. He scored nine game winning runs during the season. And so they're just taking a little bit of a liberty with the language here so I went through his game log because he only scored twenty nine runs in nineteen seventy four and using the same definition for game winning runs his game winning. Rpi Like the run that puts your team ahead and never relinquished the lead. After that I only counted seven regular season Games in seventy four when Washington scored the winning run and he played in five postseason games. But he didn't steal any bases there and Certainly didn't win any games single so I couldn't figure out unless I've miscounted. Report tops miscounted how they ended up with seven and I kept looking and I figured okay. Maybe someone else made this claim and tops just borrowed it. And so that's what I found in December twenty seventh nineteen seventy-four article from a wire service that was written by the Pulitzer Prize winning sports. Shredder IRA Berkow. It says Washington stole twenty nine basis last season and was thrown out thirteen times. He was picked off twice in the regular season and once in the world series manager. Alvin dark who has endured Finley fault? Roll says Washington by his count. One nine games for the as by stealing a base as a pinch runner which eventually led to the lead or winning run so I can only assume that this anonymous tops card writer was getting prepared for the upcoming season and trying to find something to write for the set and saw this Alvin dark quote that said that Washington one nine games for the as by stealing basis of pinch-runner which eventually went to the leader winning run and he just put it down there without saying manager. Alvin dark said it just sort of matter of factly states that this was the case and he didn't even if I look back at this seven games that counted when he scored the winning run. He didn't even steal a base in most of those runs just sort of happened to be there scoring that run so I don't know how dark was even calculating this whether he was including times when like Washington stole a base and then that somehow help someone else. Scores lead or winning run at. It seems pretty vague. Ni- only found one game when he scored the lead run. That wasn't the winning run so I don't know exactly how he came up with that number then it kept looking and I found a December first nineteen seventy-four. Upi story that says Reggie Jackson figures Washington one nine games outright for the as last season by stealing himself into scoring position manager. Alvin dark believes Washington should be credited with a higher total so evidently the nine game claim came from Reggie Jackson and Alvin Dark. Thought it should be even higher so I don't know whether they actually believe this or whether they were just trying to boost a teammate. Or what you think that. If they actually believed he was that valuable would have released him the following. May He definitely did not win night. Games for the nineteen seventy four as I don't care what you say. Anonymous tops writer. I have two things for this the first of which is given the Positi of his other potentially significant stats. It seems like you have room in the flair tax to just tribute quote. Seems like I should be able to throw it in there. Yeah space is limited but still. Yeah it's quite a clean. Maybe just prevent some support for that right. So there's that part and then as you were taking us down this rabbit hole. I pulled up his game logs for seventy four at baseball reference and sorted by win probability added and I find it very funny that the two games in which he accrued the highest win probability added for the as. We're both losses ONE AGAINST MINNESOTA AND ONE AGAINST CLEVELAND. So you know he is a fun and interesting. Historical oddity for sure but But one that perhaps could have Born a bit more context and explanation on his top Scud I would think so. Yeah in in that. First Article quoted. Where dark makes the claim about him? Winning Nine Games. It says outspoken critic of Washington Third Baseman Sal Bando. This was one of his teammates. Some of his teammates were quite critical of this idea. So Sal Bando said Yeah but how many Games did he lose? Which is a fair point. Sal Bando so it says dope believes that Washington was just taking up the space as twenty fifth man that a combination hitter field runner should have had and Washington. Of course never batted. He never feel that he never pitched or anything he really was just a designated pinch-runner and it's not even just that he was limited player but that he wasn't even that great doing the thing that he was here to do because like he stole twenty nine basis that year and he was actually sixteen times which is not really a great ratio. If your job he had one job and it was to still faces and not get caught and T- wasn't that great at that job so if you will get fan graphs stats for that season Fan. Grass has him at negative point. Four wins above replacement. Not Winning nine games for the as but maybe like losing them half a came and it actually has as negative in base running runs effec- s because he got caught so often and in terms of win probability added it has some just barely positive point one two so the stats that we have now said that he was essentially just kind of a wash. Which I think is what I enjoy so much about this particular quote compared to the ones in this genre that I said it earlier like Yeah Phil. Rizzuto might not have been taking half a runoff. Everyone's Era Ozzie. Smith may not have been saving one hundred runs in a van. Rodriguez may not have been saving run per game but all those guys were good. They were saving sub runs various. It's not really clear that her Washington was helping at all. It's not like he was getting on base. Every time he stole a base someone else was getting on and then someone else was driving him in and if he hadn't been there. Another runner sometimes would escort instead. You have to take into account. The pinch runner replacement level. How many hypothetically for someone like this. What is the platonic ideal of their stolen base? Success rate that we would except for us to look at this and say oh. This is an interesting way of sort of who constructing your Austria and trying to account for some very specific game states. Because I think realistically even a very good base runner and good base. Running isn't just pure straight line speed right. It's a combination of that plus instincts around sort of acumen so one hundred percent effectiveness is probably not realistic. But I think the number has to be fairly high before you sit there and say this is a good use of a roster spot. Probably what north of Avenue? Certainly north of ninety percent. Maybe as high as ninety five. Yeah I would say I was GONNA say ninety. Yeah and this is a conversation that we had about Billy Hamilton. Eight Times because he was not contributing in many other ways in Hamilton. At least was a great center fielder fight. He just didn't pace but when he first came up there was some talk about. Well how could you deploy him remember? Sam wrote an article about just how valuable he could possibly be if you always used him as a pinch runner and just used him at the most valuable times. And I think Travis Chick wrote something about that later just looking at. If you've maximized his value as runner how valuable would he be? And even then it wasn't really that impressive and it turned out that Billy Hamilton wasn't that great of steelers so which was kind of disappointing on top of just the disappointment that he couldn't really get on base but he wasn't really the other world leash stolen base artists that we thought he would be when he was in the minors. Either yeah I imagine that when rosters the roster rules for twenty twenty are announced and they have this taxi squad and expanded rosters that teams will probably for the most part use those extra spots on pitching because everyone's going to be pretty nervous about pitcher usage this year with the weird schedule and the spring training two point. Oh on what have you but I hope I want there to be one team. At least one team that decides to do a little experimentation around based running as a way to deploy some of those roster spots because I think it would be. This is going to be a goofy weird year anyhow. We may as well learn some stuff and potentially some good gifts. We want good gifts because you know what happens when you get good gifts as you get you get articles or you you at least get articles whether they're August depends on how are executed slow based running in that way. Yeah no I I love the terrance core type roller and so if we get someone in that role that would be great just Probably don't claim that he personally won games for a team season. It seems like a little bit of a stretch. It was a cool car though it was like a special card for him as a special unique player and this was actually covered in the great book by Josh Welker. Cardboard gods and he wrote about this experiment and he wrote about this card. And Josh said as recounted on the back of his nineteen seventy five card Washington entered ninety one games in nineteen seventy four. His first season in the majors he still twenty nine bases and was caught. Sixteen Times. This is not a good ratio and infect would be identified by present day. Baseball number CRUNCHERS US as counter-productive Washington's jittery unpolished improvisations on the base. Paths killing too many possible rallies to justify the occasional extra-base. Us did only until May of the following year adding more stolen bases in one more cut stealing to his all time record. When I was a kid I did not scrutinize the stolen base to cut stealing ratio but was instead mesmerized that these statistics were included at all at the time and throughout the nineteen seventy stolen bases. Were not among the statistics on any other card. I also completely believed the overheated back of the card. Space filling pros created a nameless tops functionary. Who wrote among other things that Washington was personally responsible for winning? Nine Games for the as in nineteen seventy four. My guess is that in a couple of these nine games. Washington merely trotted across the plate in front of a home run by one of the actual piece ball players on the team that in a few more of the nine games he scored after a series of events. Not of his own. Doing that would have led just as easily to escort by the actual baseball player. He replaced and that the Gamer to were his speed actually seemed to provide the winning edge. Where more than canceled out by his inexperience base running gaffes in other games and by his taking the place on the roster of someone who could say feel the ground ball or dump. A pinch hit single into right field once in awhile then again. His mere presence may have inflicted psychological damage on other teams by carrying a guy on their roster who could not hit pitch or field the as were in essence declaring to their opponents that they kick their asses with one hand tied behind their back and guess. That's kind true when they did and they win the world series and I did find a quote somewhere by her Washington where he sort of talked up that psychological advantage and he said the APP. That you're not counting. How many box I induced. Or how many pitchers iit distracted or the times when they caught me because there is a pitch out and I guess that's true but still not nine games worth so. Yeah it does make you appreciate. Just how unlikely it is that you have a player who would be able to. You have speed truly. They're only carrying tool and that they would sort of persist through baseball long enough to get in a position where they could serve this role on a roster. Because it isn't like we said it isn't just speed it's you know it's having good base running instincts and sort of knowing when to go and not to you have to be in a baseball setting long enough to develop those. But if you really can't hit enough that you would just be a pinch runner. The odds that you're going to keep doing that and not go. You know be attract star or go an NFL wide receiver. What have you seen very very low to me? So there are a lot of fast guys and we have baserunners in baseball now. Who are you know better and worse than others? But I think it's it's a stranger profile than even you might appreciate at first blush. I also am realizing that we have at Van Graphs. We have her Washington listed on his player page as D. H. A. Now I'm going to. Ask Sean. Dolan are if it would grow our database. Just terribly to have him have him change that pinch-runner because it's just wrong. It's inaccurate so there you go all right. So we're fact checking forty-five-year-old cards also pages and Sal Bando. I think was one of the players who were critical of her. Washington being even on the world series roster that year and he was vindicated because in game two. Mike Marshall picked off her Washington he just kept stepping off and stepping off and then he got him an. It's like again. That's your one job rank picked off. But you did an important moment. That video is actually online on Youtube. So I will link to it. It's got Vin scully. On the call and you can actually see. Reggie Jackson and out. Dark watching. Washington is picked off but evidently not making a mental adjustment to how much he was worth. Marshall is trying to take advantage of is. Let's say lack of maturity by stepping off the rubber twice now baking throw and the third time rate into Los Angeles Herb Washington a I Reggie Jackson Alvin dark watching intensely off. I knew he was going to try and take that leave. Mike Sue Quick for and he nailed him. He really set him up by stepping off the rubber three times and that was all part of it. Now Watch out. He's got him leaning on his right leg is hung out to dry all the way. Take it from another look. And it's simply experience maturity and luck. There he is dead anyway. It's funny that you could just kind of take players words for it or or managers word for it if they said so and so was worth nine wins. Well who was to say? They weren't because they weren't really basing it on anything and there wasn't really any way to disprove it at least without diving into this rabbit hole yourself and at that time it wasn't even like you could go woke up the game logs reference and even check that easily so. I sympathize but I added this to my cherished collection of people saying that someone was worth a ridiculously inflated number of wins so that's the story of Washington if you were going to prepare your own wall for broadcast of Seo game this card it sounds like would go on it. It probably would. And that makes an excellent segue into our interviews that we will be back in just a moment with poop shabby to talk about. Calling Baseball Games. From fire away is soon wrong. We are joined now by one of our favorite baseball broadcasters. Espn's John Woo Shabby you know him from Sunday. Baseball radio broadcasts Wednesday night baseball telecasts and now depending on where you are crack of dawn or middle of the night K B O Baseball broadcasts on. Espn two on various days of the week. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much I appreciate it guys having me yes. I got my nap in. And I'm I'm ready to pod. Yeah will ask you about your sleep schedule in a moment but take us back a few weeks before you actually impact on this baseball experiment. How familiar were you with the k? P. O? And had you watched? Cape YOKE GAMES BEFORE. I had not watch tapio gains before my experience with Korean. Baseball was from the Oh six and nine than there are the sirens by the way background where they're sitting so close to. Lennox to that the way it worked was six did the forest bracket in for WBZ. We did it remotely. So I had China Chinese Taipei career in Japan. We did six games from like a broom closet Bristol and then no nine. I went to Tokyo in. Did those four teams again and that year career. Japan got to the finals. So I think I had Korea five times so I will tell you that I did get at least a little bit of a sense of the level play. I got a sense for what it was like being hip deep in the names. Yeah and yeah I think I came away with a with a with a couple of thoughts that I guess but I and most basic was. They got some guys could hit so otherwise. I vaguely knew about the backflips. I I had an idea that there were a dozen teams. There are ten but I hadn't watched the league so I mean that's that's my thumbnail sketch on it. I I did not know on about O. I really knew nothing. And how much advance notice did you have you? Were going to be part of this broadcast team. And then how did you go about preparing for calling these games? I'm curious what resources you relied on. Apart from Mike Dot net which I think has saved many of us for making embarrassing errors as we have embarked on cable coverage but beyond that. What resources did you use and what help has ESPN provided to you? And then I'm also curious. How much of an obstacle it is to not be able to go to the clubhouse in talk to the people who are involved in a game action. I found out probably eight to ten days before the the opening of the season. I WANNA say like eight days was would the might might heads up. Officially was my boss called. We're talking about something else and in it. He said Yan came. You'll things probably gonNA happen. And then eventually I had somebody in my House. I guess the we had already started so I guess they were. They were in my head. Season opened may fifth so somebody was in. May Fifth may six. The they were in. My house may six setting it up twelve hours before the broadcast and as far as resources are research people send US stuff. You know the basically directed towards my k b o Dot Net Mike Abo Stats Baseball Prospectus. Had done some things. I clip those articles fan graphs had done some stuff as well got pointed to some different sites as it's gone on. I've connected with the with different people. Sunday Cam obviously on the number of different scouts. Daniel Kim who has over there who covers the league and is also a New York native. V grew up in. Bayside Queens. So He's been really helpful. I would say look the lack of information. Espn's done some stuff. I think it's difficult not being in the clubhouse but I would say the best way I could describe. It is that the. There's no one thing that makes it really challenging. Like if I had to do the royals and the rockies the way I'm doing it right now it would be hard if I was getting the lineups forty minutes before I pitch and I didn't control a single shot for TV and they just showed me the rockies dugout and just what face face face with no font help it'd be challenging if I got no update on if we just came back from commercial end. Hey there's a new pitcher on the mound for. I think that's a pinch hitter. That would be hard but all of that in combination with not knowing the names not knowing a ton of background on the players. Yeah it's it's difficult my setting day. It was funny fifteen minutes to air and I got a call that the game I was going to do have been rained out and we were going to a different game. So she's yeah so you just you gotTa Roll with it and I'm seeing exactly what you're seeing so I don't Have access to really nothing more than anyone else chats so that so that's one of the things so to me. You know I saw as I wanNA teach people about this league as I'm learning about this league I wanNA bring gets on. Who can inform? Add you know color to humanize the players. The stories as best we can but it's also are only baseball window so I wanted to turn it into a little bit of a variety. Show type thing. I've had some fun with pictures over. You know that I made a sort of like a backdrop set where I rotate the pictures in and out so I have a picture of Craig Counsel. Riding his lawnmower in full uniform. I have a picture of Rick Sutcliffe with his shirt off. I have a picture of my little sister when she was two with balloons. I on an audit. I mean. There's been some really good funny ones. But for the most part it's it's baseball centric with Comic Q. On today and I had a great picture of him quarantined with his hair. Just Kinda with you know a dead look. I put that over my shoulder by first broadcast of CAL. Peterson got his freshman year headshot at Stanford. I put that over my shoulder so I I have a wall and I tweeted out or put it on on instagram. So my my vision. Is You know that we'll do these games. And honor the Games and also talk some baseball and have some fun but if it's nine two. Yeah we'RE WE'RE GONNA WANDERING AND GO DIFFERENT PLACES. But that's that's kind of how we've been doing it. It's it's a real challenge. I mean it's really hard. I was going to ask you about the wall because I think that's been one of the sort of fun and unusual parts of everyone adapting to our current environmental seeing their at home. Setups and yours is. I think by far the most aesthetically pleasing that I don't bomb out your your fellow. Espn or by saying that. How often are you swapping stuff out? And how do you decide? What makes the wall I mean? I'm changing every every game that I do not every single picture but yeah I. I'm just trying to trying to turn and look 'cause I'm actually in the room right so like I have my big picture my buddy Tim sheehy who died of AL S. Some founded by charity are are Charity Project Main Street but then. Gosh have this amazing picture of Chris. Singleton from him when he's probably five and I just love the picture and then I just keep rotating different funny picks out. I have a side by side of me in the heat miser one on the Michael Kay show and don the Grech asked me about and Don league-record sent me one of him as a two year old sailor outfits or put that up there I I mean I'm I'm soliciting and and just trying to have fun. There's a great picture of that I got. I got when Aaron Boone got named manager of the Yankees. We worked together a bunch in fact. His first big-league broadcast was with me in the playoffs on the radio and I sent him. I sent him a gift for Christmas. Which was a t shirt from? The can peel substitute teacher sketch and attempt standing in front of the tree and I just I sent him the t shirt and said I hope this doesn't end up on the back. Page of the New York Post in the t shirt says you done messed up a wrong. So He's in that and I just keep keep rotating them out. Just keep trying to have fun at a great pitcher Larry Rothschild as a pitching coach Florida state and I Have some more and Yeah you know we're just we're keeping our fedex. does in business and Yeah we I got. I got a picture of Dan. Schulman with hair. That is incredible and Joe Buck with a mustache and on and on. So I'm I'm confident that it will keep keep getting better. I would say that if I'm willing to print I would say that I'm going to be able to continue to get my hands on good pictures of people inside the game of baseball. So that's what the viewer's seeing as you do the broadcast. So what are you seeing the describe your setup where exactly in the house are you what are you looking at or listening to because you've done remote broadcasting before but this is different from what haven't done much so like. I did that game. I did those games in two thousand and six and then I did a Caribbean League World Series Game in two thousand twelve. And that's kind of been it. As far as my setup. I have an IPAD. That is the camera and then I have an led light and then I have a laptop. That's probably I dunno twelve inches. And that's what the Games on the game is on on a zoom coal basically and then. I have a headset box where I can talk off air to my partner the producer the research guy but again it's it's just a lot and it's horrid when you know the other part of the equation is not having your partner next to you. You wouldn't think about it and you guys appreciate this doing a pod but if you're next to each other all the time the nonverbal is so important in terms of I'm about to finish I'm done I have a little bit more to say. Let me jump in here all that stuff. All those things go out the window in. And so you're you're stepping on each other and that type of thing so you know but on a basic level you know. We do the day Games on Sundays. Hard to see at least for me. It's hard to see. I'm having trouble young. You don't always pick up the baugh doing the and so guessing whether you know is gone or did he get it. Yeah it's IT'S A. It's a challenge. Yeah mega naive to the same thing. We're doing these interviews or Sammer. Whoever's on that day were messaging each other okay? I'll take the next question the next question. I have a follow up here. I don't know if you can do that effectively. While you're also going with the interviews like that's the thing we can do with the interviews but in terms of the play by play in the flow of the broadcast. It still going to happen. A little more organically so that's where it's it's challenging in the interviews. Our producer is doing that he is saying. Kyle's next have Ordos next. Boo HAS ONE MORE BOOZE. GonNa follow that part. We don't step on each other but as it relates to you know we again. It's not our feed so the pictures and they're replaying and replaying and read. They haven't tendency to replay a lot. Are we going to talk about that? Or are we gonNa talk about something else? So it's it's challenging. You can't organizers it. Quite the same way baucus for the day or night of a game. How early are you getting up or just staying awake or you? Are you a vampire night person now or are you taking? Pd's to stay alert. How are you getting through this very strange schedule? I at I think at some point. I was contemplating this the other day. I A starbucks close to make I like coffee just period. That's the and I now. I'm the Guy Walking around with four. Venti ICE coffees unsweetened in a tray. And they're all for me and I put them in my fridge and I have probably five different styles a beans and a bean grinder. So we're drinking a lot of coffee as far as the sleep schedule for the five thirty. The first three games were brutal because I the first game was five thirty followed by the next day's game at four. Am Fall by the next day's game at one. Eight dummy kilner so for the five now that settled in my my schedule. Roughly in Thursday Friday. I'm doing the five thirty. Am and then the Sunday at one am so for the five thirty games. I'm going to bed at nine thirty or ten waking up at two doing prep trying to get a lineup from you know reaching out to people trying to see if I can find a line up a little bit early testing equipment and then I call the game. These games have been long pets in four hour games. So I'm up. You know by two two thirty ish and then I do the game from five thirty eastern time to say eight thirty nine. Am and then. I usually stay up for a couple hours. Get something to eat. And then I'll sleep for like two hours and then get another four that night and then for the the One am game. I'm a by large. I'm doing six six to nine or so six to ten seven to Tan and then doing the game and then going to bed for five six hours something like that and then Sunday night. I'm getting usually you know the type of sleep like somebody. You know chloroform. The like in the movies where they sneak up behind you like a handkerchief or something like that. That's usually what that what that is like where the alarm goes off after twelve hours. My reaction is when I find the person that's making that noise swing on them realize. Yeah that's the alarm so even with the coffee. How hard is it to bring the same energy at unusual times and also I guess without the Electricity of being surrounded by a crowd? And I don't know if you have any crowd sounds or whether you're just hearing the broadcast but how hard does that make it? So here's one for you. I'll tell you this this. This is a funny one. There is some crowd sound. I'm not sure whether the stadium is pumping it in or the Korean broadcast. Feed that we're taking it from his pumping it and we're three weeks in and I don't know who's supplying that so there are some slight crowd. Remember that they still have their cheerleaders there so in home team hits. They're making some racket. They got their DJ and they're MC in their cheers and they play a lot of music. So I probably changes a little bit but yeah it's it's weird and I would say you're not doing a game at seven thirty in the morning. Just not yeah. That's not the the schedule on used to to be nodded. What else. So how do you think about balancing the play by play responsibility helping the folks at home sort of understanding follow the action versus the in game interviews that you guys are doing and I would imagine that you know having experienced broadcasting before doing radio? It's not like this is the first time you've had to juggle but this is a pretty unusual situation. So how are you balancing those things? I think it's hard What's what's I think we have to do it this way. Because I'm I'm assuming that the bulk of our viewership is getting baseball. Fix and I so I. I don't think you can call every game like it's game three of the AFC ass. I just don't we don't have enough information in order to do it that way like we can't totally honor the game in that regard as far as I mean I frankly I had a moment in the game. I did this morning where I mean. There is a new pitcher a new hitter. Shoop pinch runners into defensive changed and I didn't know any of them. Now I've worked hard. Junely has been so magnificent in helping me with pronunciations. And I really you write the names down in front of me. I feel like I have. I've gotten to a place where I I can do fairly well with look the sounds are supposed to be. I think I'm doing okay with that. I'm trying my best but if it's if I can't get my hands on the information you know and I'm calling The other thing is the commercial breaks are short. So it's seventy five seconds and you're back and then I'm in my external voice of welcome back John Shabby and Kyle Peterson. And my internal voices. Is that picture? That looks like a new picture is at a five twenty five minutes backers and a forty five minutes back and I'm looking at the roster and I need him to turn because I can't read Korean and a lot of these teams don't have numbers on the front end so it's hard and then as far as I mean. Look I trust myself in terms of content. Managing interesting is interesting. So liquid jared diamond on today. We gotTa do good conversation. Jared smart you know. So that's what we we did. I you know we have the players over. There have been magnificent about coming on during game like. Lg's playing in Tyler. Wilson did a half with us and it was wonderful. He was smart and interesting and human and justice he was great and then we also had comic you on and he's spotted super likable. And you're trying to use you on Tyler. The case you know. Fill in the blanks. It's it's not so easy so I think it needs to be done this way and look. I understand. We're not GONNA satisfy every I'm sorry I also like the other part is look my way of doing it is. I'm GONNA have fun. I mean I'm not I. I'm not GonNa do it when you know. There's two outs in the night Rhino hitter. But we're going to have some fun and we're doing Korean baseball at five thirty in the morning like Brad infrasonic. So like it's going to. It's going to be a little lighter. Sorry so for the people to get agitated. I think what's hard is that and you touched on it. Yeah I've done interviews and I've done both radio. Mtv where you're you're navigating that and it's a great great help but when the anchor is I players I mean heck the Yankees could play the red sox and if it's happening in front of me I mean I could probably do the games without numbers because I know the shapes and sizes of all the players so well. It's you know we do. These teams so frequently in my knowledge base is is there when you don't when I have to actually read the names. That way of doing it is a tiny bit more challenging. And we're not GONNA do it perfectly or at least I'm not gonNa do it perfectly. That's that's for sure but I you know my my goal remains the same when I'm broadcasting a game. I'm trying to make it smart. I'm trying to make it interesting trying to make it fun. Those are the three notes that I'm trying to hit every time. Mlb K B O. Whatever you know. And there's a need the the amount of ingredients for each that you're striving for is is different each time and look are there times when we've wandered from the play by play during. Kb Oh yeah we have and sometimes it's because the games nine one and by the way we do that as well right in a big league game but other times. It's just hard like I said there are times when I just. I don't have fresh on the field. I I don't I don't know who it is. So it's it's just it's it's not simple every game that you're calling is September with the royals expanded roster. Who are these guys like the way it can feel at times after the first game that I did? I thought we had a good broadcast but the way that it feels at times. My Metaphor is knowing. It's like gum log rolling for three and a half hours and I'm just trying not to fall it. Yeah despite there not being baseball in the states there actually is still a lot to talk about when it comes to MLB. So how are you thinking about devoting time to and they'll be topics because we have this huge question of whether we're going to resume play in how we're GONNA do it? And what the compromises between the players association and the League might look like so you have to leave those topics and as well. I would think we do but I'd also say so might. Might I guess. My feeling is charted. Yeah need articulated clearly. So they haven't presented something economically yet to the players. That specific right. So I'M NOT GONNA get into my personal views on it owners versus players in this format. You know what I may like that generically We're not going to navigate that I and as far as trying to break down the health protocols even I don't think we're even there yet so disordered you know I'm more interested in com- accused playing catch with a net is if it starts to get closer then. I want to ask him okay. What are some of the specific things that you're worried about right and that and that will get there so you know again? I I think that today we use it. As with jared. We talked about his books. Swing kings which is great but we also talked about just kind of the state of the game and some of the things you like about K B o like the way I break it down again. My opinion but where. Mlb is right now. I think it's going in a bad direction. I mean I I. I have a hard time imagining that. Even the Best Baseball Fan and I love it as much still now as I did when I was seven. But there's a train coming. I mean in terms of what's happening I put it is this. There are three things going on at the same time. That are bad and you can't have all three at the same time. You can't have the games getting longer. The amount of time between pitches getting longer and the amount of time between bowl in play getting long. You cannot have three if the ball's not being in play and the pace is slow and you're guaranteed to have it happen in a two and a half hour window. I think that would be tolerable. Not Advocating for two of the three in that spot. Okay I think that the sport would be okay but you can't have all three. They've got to address it preferably the balls in play more. It's happening faster and it doesn't take as long as it would be good. I think for the long term health of the sport for all three to be improved in some way so the yeah I just look I. I'm you know the Ombudsman to some extent right. I mean I I sit there and on the guy that determines what we're GONNA do and overseas it and so I I feel like look both of you guys I I am. We know each other. And but I'll I'll pay you both the complement of you guys both know what interesting is it's it's what your strength is and if you were being totally honest with yourselves like what do you think you're good at. You could sit there and and tell me all day that the different skill sets that you think you bring to the table but if you if you really take a deep breath and meditate band mag both of you both of you and you sit there and say what do you think you're good at both of you. Believe and in my opinion are very good at understanding. What is interesting? Well I think I am too like and I made that made stating that explicitly makes you sound like a jackass but I feel like I know what's interesting so I'm Gonna I'm GonNa try and continue down that path or at least I know what's interesting. Is it relates. The baseball not particularly interested in crab doped beyond was there consideration of having sort of a sideline person who is in Korea. Maybe not physically in the ballpark but sort of the scene. Who's been covering the League for years? And maybe could help out with this. Is this guy's backstory or is that just kind of too much to juggle on a technical level magazine? Okay if we are we allowed to turn it into two against one so now it's GonNa be me and you against Ben. This is where I say then I just explained to you. It's like log roll and I feel like you basically said to me. Yeah that's Great Book Juggling Chain. So my answer would be. I don't know whether they consider that. But but like another thing in the mix I mean look. We have guests. So that's that would be my. That would be my share my aunt. Yeah but like if they want to chainsaws journal chainsaws whatever. Yeah you talked about some of the trends in LB. That are maybe not spectator friendly. So has there been anything about K. Baseball and the style of play there that you have found refreshing or or different or front will what I like it. So here's here's what I would say I like is it's not like Japan where they're doing they don't do as much small ball is Japan They certainly are more three. Run homer centric. I'm down with that. So they're not trying to give away out but the ball is in play more right. The problem is the stuff isn't good enough in the defense isn't good enough so it's really hard. When the average fastballs eighty eight miles an hour they're good hitters and stuff gets hit and then the defense gets banged around but I liked the idea that they're trying. They're not trying to play small ball but it doesn't come with the cost of the strike out of the ball not being play. That's what I like about it Kinda related to that one of the things that Dan Kurtz such when we interviewed him was that he hoped American audiences would appreciate the for what it is rather than constantly comparing it to. Mlb At the same time. Mlb is the baseball context that most US fans have in are familiar with so. When do you find yourself utilizing? Mlb COM versus. Trying to watch K B O. Free of how it's run-scoring environment compares to the majors here. Or How pitchers might attack hitters or the quality of the defense. So yeah I mean there are a couple of things. One is yeah. Give the the cooperative Slash LINES FROM LAST YEAR. And we talk about how they deduce the baseball last year. It seems like it's going back in a in a different direction. I mean I think those are all things just to inform the viewer from fourteen to eighteen. It had a similar vibe. In terms of it was Homerun Palooza. Now People WanNa do the what level does it reflect and the thing if you really if you really break it down. I don't think he can do it that way. I think you take the skill sets each like for me guys can hit. I mean I think the the three four guy three four five guys are two three four five guys in both the lineups there are i. I would say every team has three guys that are capable of hitting on a big league team is what I would say and and so they can hit I would put I would put the offense at triple AAA ish. The stuff of the pitchers is not what you're used to. You know despond. Yay pitched for the whiz. Today and ninety three ninety four was like whoa right not used to seeing that and then. I think that if there's one part that's been disappointing it's been the defense on some pretty basic plays. I would say that that part has been that a little bit of a bummer. But you know look I still you. Don't we did the today? And there's a kid on the WHIZ BECO- com who is now at three weeks. I WanNa see him hit man. He's twenty years alarms. The first overall pick in a draft a couple years ago. He's twenty years old. He's got a thousand plate appearances in the K B. O. They got some. I mean there guys that can swing in there that are fun to watch hit Yuji Young. Who's The catcher for? The dyno's is a really good player. We've had Josh Lindblom on a number of times. He smart. He's funny he's likable. And he gives us great context on what's happening in the league so but back to what you ask. Yeah look you're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA COMP two major league baseball it's always gonNA come back to that but you're just trying to explain to people. Okay so what are you what you really watching here and we. We do our best but look it. It's baseball but still it's still cool and yeah when there are really good players. I mean like I said today. I was bummed out that we didn't get a chance to watch BECO- contemplate so that's you know that's that's part of what you're looking for. You're looking to to see who the players are. And I guess anytime you call any baseball game. You're trying to make it accessible to casual viewers but also not trying to turn off people who were watching baseball the time they don't need the basics explained to them every day. And so now that you've been at this for a few weeks and you've earned a lot about the league and people who've been tuning in regularly have learned a lot about the league. Where do you sort of set that level? As far as here's how much of the context you need to set up every time I think it just kind of feel I mean you. You just yeah. It's just it's feel. And how does the game go and I think that? Yeah it really depends. We've we've had weird stuff we've had you don't blowouts and walk offs and it's it's just it's felt extreme. Bullpens are a fiasco from at least. That's what they've demonstrated so far. So yeah it's it's just feel it's hard. It's hard for me to explain. I don't sweat that you know what I mean like but I still look. I will sit here. I'll talk about you. Know I mean Ben you would I got connected in our nerdiness you know from back your days at BP and obviously we both went to Regis speaking of nerdiness but but as far as you know when you're putting stuff in the context it's it's just it's important where I will doing a big league game. Say Hey so the two stats to correlate most with run-scoring or on base and slugging. And here's the slash line in the majors this year. So so if I'm referencing a guys there'll be a guy slug. Yeah I will still every few games say. Here's what the League averages. This year in these categories it. Just feel I I. I wish I could say that. I have a script on it but I think there's just a field to do that and yet you try your best to use the good word to make it accessible. You're trying while you've outlined a number of the challenges and I think inspite of those. You guys have done a really great job of putting this broadcast together. What do you think you've gotten better since you started doing? These K B O broadcasts. How the Log Rolling? Maybe gotten a little easier to manage. Well here's what I would say is that I think that you get you. Get the teams. I mean Don L. G. Now I think four times you know so. You really start to get a sense for Roberto Ramos. Although Tyler Wilson gives permission com Bob now but so You just start to get a sense for some of these guys get opinions on different players. A dyno's leadoff guy. Zeman will park is a nice player. I think that it's it's it's that automatic type of recognition of a player that that I think just gets helpful and it it it makes it a little bit more smooth ultimately. I think that really what's taking places. I I hope I really hope that these broadcasts can you to get better. I think just as we get more and more familiar with the players as guys you know it becomes a little easier for us to recognize the monitor monitors and not information but I think what it really is going to end up doing is probably probably if there's you know there's a decent chance that we're going to be calling games like this in some form some of the time for Major League Baseball this year. I don't think there's any question that there's whether it's for my house or from a studio that is not out of the question and I would say probably even likely I think that that that version log rolling is probably GonNa be easier because I have done this. And when you're calling game in person. Roughly what percentage of the time are you actually looking at the field versus the video monitor? And what do you most miss being able to see? Just pay? Actually being in the ballpark. Okay I get asked this question a lot I will. I will answer the question and it's anecdotal and you know I'm the one that subjectively gets to say they're actor is i. Guess some objective answer I will. It's different for radio and TV. But I'm GonNa do something that I've never done before. Give me a percentage guests that you have for radio and for TV each young so your guess would be. I look at the field. What percent of the time? And the Monitor. What percent of the time in radio in the field? What presented a time and the Monitor? What percent of the time on TV? Gosh well yes. That's right here. I told his to control this experience broadcast. That's right and now you guys are thinking now. Now you're you're basically you're broadcast green baseball. You gotta you gotTa answer on the Air Boob Chambi. I love talking third person when Shami is broadcasting. A game on the radio mega when boot. John is broadcasting a game on the radio. What do you suspect is the amount of time? He's looking at the field and the amount of time he's looking at the monitor when he's looked when he's broadcasting game on the radio and I'll give you a little extra time and re ask the question. Good mechanical device. What percentage of the time when bookshop is doing TV game? Do you think he's looking at the field? And what percentage of the time do you think he's looking at the Monitor? Got Guesses if you need more time to think our guess so I. I'm going to guess that on the radio it's sixty percent field forty percent monitor and that it's flipped for TV. 'cause you have to worry about graphics and bumpers in and out and that kind of stuff is that a terrible guess? No that's pretty close to say I don't get over whether her good. It's about as good as my guess would have been. Which does that mean that my guess would have been good but yeah. I was guessing that Maybe sixty forty or something. Tv for for field and monitor. Just because you're you're seeing what the viewer's seeing and you can look down at night Tennessee. The pitch and then I would think that on. You might want to look more around the ballpark. Just because you're trying to set the scene and people are not seeing exactly what you did. She seeing on. The Monitor aren't so my answer is on radio. I'm looking at the field. Probably eighty percent of the time of the modern about twenty percent of the time I just because and there are other guys that will work off of a Centerfield Cameron work off the Monitor. My problem is as long as I have a decent sight line. I feel good about pitches just off the field like I. Just I'm I'm basically find out what guys have. I know how hard they throw. I can look at the radar gun calling pitches is usually not a problem taking DC in Pittsburgh out of it when we're broadcasting from the Empire State Building and then you're looking at the monitor to fill in stuff so it's about eighty twenty TV. I would say it's probably fifty fifty but it's really more it's this it's it's so the play happens and I'm probably in the Monitor for the Pitch Close. Like seventy five percent of the time as soon as the pitches delivered on the field so it's monitored a field and then the play ends and then it's probably back to monitor so I would say it's it's it's closer to two fifty fifty so you guys were. Yeah you were. I mean in the range and the range is pretty solid. Meg feel okay. Not embarrassed no you define you see how awful it would be to work with me. I mean here delight bully down. Sell yourself shows. I am curious. You know one of the things obviously South Korea's in a position to play baseball right now where the United States is not. And you guys have spent time on your broadcast boasts amongst yourselves in terms of the folks who you've talked to sort of laying out for American audiences. The other societal factors that needed to be placed before play could resume and I'm curious how you thought about balancing that obviously in some ways that probably strikes a lot of people as a fairly obvious question and topic that needs discussion but it is not without some political overtones in the states. So have you thought about that Maybe not quite as much as I should but I just do it. Yeah I do I trust my judgment and just and just do it. I mean I look I live in New York City or so word at the epicenter of it so I I take this as very real you know in very scary and was really scary for a stretch. I have parents Who are in their seventies. So I mean I don't want to get into that too much but I also for the people that are asking. Why is Korea able to do it? They did a better job of mitigation and widespread testing. And Look. You're right. There's a political component regardless. But I will say that. It seems pretty obvious you know. The other distinction is testing in the K B. O. They make them take their temperature and as long as they're a symptomatic they don't test him they're symptomatic then they will test them. But I think that when you have three times as many players testing symptomatically is is kind of boss. Plus you have these. You know support staff that will clearly be cut down but I think look. I understand the implications but I've said it once or twice. Yeah so if you're going to do that it does need. You do need to make sure that it's right. You can't have the DIAMONDBACKS BACKUP. Second baseman getting access to test six times a week when somebody in the middle of Michigan who works in a hospital was exposed to someone quarantine themselves and as as symptomatic now and can't get a task. You know what I mean like you. You can't have that and I'm not looking to get into a greater discussion so i. I don't know that I've actually answered your question to be honest. I I just I. I think that they're they're little things. That seem obvious that that might be a little aditorial. But we're staying away from that. I'm not interested in stirring people up in in that regard. I want people to be safe. I want the sport to be safer one. Everybody be healthy. You know if you were one of the many baseball broadcasters who don't have any live action to call right now what would you be doing to stay sharp to stay sharp? Yeah just to kind of keep your skills honed. So that if baseball comes back you're you're rusty. Yeah that's a great question. I don't think I would do anything I mean. I think I would just end up being rusty's what it ended up being stinky and where you really noticed it on the radio. It's it's I love that I get to do both people ask me which one you like. Better they access different skills right so that I love being able to paint the picture and doing it being descriptive but being efficient with it. And there's a timing component that is so challenging but so fulfilling when you're able to really paint the picture and use the sounds in the ballpark so there's that but your timing can get really screwed up and then on TV. Because I don't have to describe stuff. I can impact the content more. I've worked with a great producer. Who knows my you know? Analytics Bent Heck had. It happened the other day on the cable broadcast Eduardo. When we were talking late in the game and remember team was down around or whether they were even and was a guy on second and nobody out in the bunted and so you know I made the point that you know. This is an anti analytics. By the way I brought up. My you know my run expectation table because really. Who doesn't have ron expectation table laptop desktop computer and you know just went through the percentages and. I love doing stuff like that. I still love doing stuff like that telling people look. Here's the the basic idea? This is how often you're expected to score this percent of the time with a man at third one out and this percent of the time with mad at second and nobody out so yeah there you go t think the experience of relying on remote broadcasts during the pandemic will make remote broadcasting just as a whole more common even after it's safe to call games in person and if it did what would you miss about being on site really did it You'd have to keep changing up the wall. That's a big ask keeping it light but on a real on a real note. Yes my thought is that I think that that. There's an element of this. How fat I mean this year. Certainly but in the next ten years. Yeah we're seeing the future and it bums me out. I Love Broadcasting Games. I like connecting with people. I like seeing Chris singleton making him laugh. I like seeing Justin wear. He's a radio producer when I do a TV game. I like making you know Andre Bruce. And AMY OUR CAMERA GUYS. Greg Logan all making them laugh jeff defined Jimmy Plateau our producer director for the longest time. You know Rick Sutcliffe and Dave Ross. This year it's going to be chipper Jones. I you know being next to them. Yeah I like connecting with people like telling stories. I think I'm good at connecting with people engaging in conversation getting good stuff out them and I just. I liked the human contact of the players. The coaches the. Gm's the managers the other broadcasters. I really love it I just do. I love getting a chance to see. I love you know going to the Yankees as game. Wildcard game a couple years ago when I'm on the field and I'm talking with Brian Cashman. And Billy being comes up and interrupts shaking caches hand and says so what's up cash out analytics shit at US tonight or what and and then and then waiting just to find billion say hey is it. Okay if I use that. And he'd says yeah and but I love that. I love that you know that finding that stuff is just and I love you know the analytical side getting good information and then after I mean look the Chipper Jones. Looking up at me in the booth starts with my curiosity and finding something on a fan grasp page and bringing it to him and then putting a coin in the machine and so that that interaction. I just I love it. I love seeing you guys laughing and met you know the next time I see guys. I'll start making fun of you. For how much of an idiot. I wasn't as podcast about asking you that dumb question and whatever but I loved that part of it I know it Corny but I like all of it. I mean. I'll miss watching baseball in person as well. Yeah but the connections with the people and the players and the stuff that I'm able to to get learn and in the process then translate to the fans is so much fun. It's so fun I mean you guys can relate on that. Kanye you just do it in a in a different way you do it the podcast or through the written word and I get to do it on the radio and on TV. Do you think that fans will continue to follow the K B O if in one? Mlb Action Resumes. I don't know the answer to that. I would have to think at least a little bit. I mean they asked the amount of attention that it's getting is crazy. I mean like it again. You know. It's the atmosphere that we're in but once it was announced that we were doing the game and I was doing the game. I mean for two days. My phone just exploded. Hey let's talk baseball. Let's talk about and I was like. Can we wait till I yeah? I hope it'll be big for international baseball. I mean obviously when he comes back will all be thrilled about that but this exposure and whether it's KP our c. p. p. l. just having it kind of be our sole source of baseball right now at imagine that produces some fun feelings rate if if you've gotten used to the players and the teams and you know the League a little bit now than naturally. I think you'd hopefully be a little bit interesting. I mean I absolutely will be like this is something that I will. I will personally stay connected. I mean I'm not saying I'm going to be locked in on it every day but it will be viewed from this point if they started. Mlb Tomorrow I would still have a curiosity and a connection Took Abo going forward. No DOUBT ALL RIGHT. So lastly may is. Ls awareness month. And as you mentioned you are very active with an organization called Project Main Street that helps people with ls deal with the financial burdens associated. With that season I know that your annual fundraising gala. That was scheduled for next week. Had to be canceled along with everything else. That's getting canceled. But how can people find out more and help out? I appreciate that. Yeah my buddy Tim sheehy. We grew up together in Rhode Islanders. One St on rolls around. It's called mainstreet so all the addresses for the most by may have changed it. It's mainstream. Is that an. Tim Thought of the idea that he's he's over my shoulder on the On the wall. That's one picture that will that'll stay the whole time. But yeah you can go to project street dot org its main. And then it's s t the abbreviation for streets project MAINSTREET DOT ORG. You could donate its tax. Deductible were five Oh one C. Three hundred percent of the money goes to people living with S and so ultimately in today's atmosphere you know the the economic impact of of covid nineteen yet. It's made it more challenging for people that have Ahah last to get care to afford care and so we raise money and give grants to help pay. Insurance will even buy your groceries by hospital bed a wheelchair and I gaze machine that type of stuff so I'm still trying to figure out I I have. I collected a number of things for an auction. In fact I have a a Peter Alonso. Polar bear cartoon the Kev Rochet did. That's over my shoulder on the wall that he signed and I'm going to auction it off but I have some other things and I'm not sure whether they do it in drips and drabs or I'm not sure but I have a bunch of stuff that I'm going to auction off but like I said anybody I mean ten dollars helps sits and it will go to a person that has the disease so I appreciate you Asking me about that in anybody. That wants to help I thank you very much. Yeah we will link to of those pages on our show page and in our facebook group and you can also find boob on twitter at Buksh Ambi- and of course you can hear him usually on. Espn two Colin Cape. Yoke Games and I guess we will let you rest your voice and rest your brain and replenish your coffee stockpile. You gotTA game coming up as always. Thanks guys thanks. So much for having me was great. I really enjoyed it all right. I WanNa share with you something. That Patriot supporter. Brian just emailed into us as we were putting the finishing touches on this episode. He is rereading the great book by John. Lords of the realm which we have mentioned and recommended many times on this show. It's about the history of labor relations and baseball and was published just before the strike in nineteen ninety four. I wrote a piece about its twenty fifth anniversary for the ringer last year anyway. Brian uncovered a passage that I had forgotten this toward the end of the book. And it's very relevant today. It says Michael Jordan was no less self-centered and no more virtuous than any baseball player and his income was considerably higher yet the NBA had marketed him. Beautifully as a genial superman in designer sneakers baseball owners obsessed with denouncing. The overpaid players. Never did that as agent. Scott Boris once put it. If the players were a can of Campbell's soup the owners would roll it down the aisle step on it kick it call it overrated and overpriced and then stick it on a shelf and try to sell it. This is kind of akin to what the owners are doing now for one but also it just goes to show that Scott Boris's way with words and appetite for analogies extends so twenty five to thirty years back at least the owners never change and neither does Scott Boris. That'll do it for today and for this week. Thanks for listening. You can't support the podcast on Patriot by going Patriot. Dot Com slash effectively. Wild Boeing. Five listeners have already signed up and pledge some small up the amount to help keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks. Brian Shores Dan. Patrick Morgan meet Gilman and Tom. Moham- thanks. While of you you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups slash. Beck the wild you can rate review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes and other podcast platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me. Negative SAM coming via email at podcast. Bankrupts DOT COM or Patriot missile system. If you are a supporter thanks to Higgins for his editing assistance. If you're looking for some reading material you can pick up the paperback of my book. The key machine. How baseball's new nonconformists are using data better players paperback edition and the kindle edition including afterward. We hope you have a nice long weekend will be back to talk to you next week. The dances easy as well. Good must be easy baby to say this week thing. Viewed as easy as rolling Nov along Must be crazy but you make me think it's true.