This is the Jaakko unraveling podcast episode nine with Daryl Cooper and me Jaakko, willink. So. Last time we were talking about. The stories that we tell ourselves and then how We get stories in groups in those start to expand in those start to unify people together. And it seems that we have an instinct towards. Some level of those. Stories unifying us to a point to where we start to drift into just straight tribalism. And then we actually use those stories and change those stories. As a tool to strengthen our tribes even more. And I know you had some some interesting stories, slash myths. That that that kind of represent that very well throughout history we've seen this it's it's it's tapping into. A basic. A basic way that our mind structures reality for us right I mean if you think about. How you teach. The youngest children something if you need to teach them something, you need him to tie their shoes right? How you GonNa do that through imitation you're gonNA show them do what I do. Right that's the same thing that like chimpanzees how they teach their children things. As they get a little bit older was the next way that you're going to teach them stuff probably maybe by like five six, seven years old you're GonNa Start Teaching them basic things about what a good person behaves like whatever you're GonNa do it through stories right? That's like the next level up. It's like later on down the road, you can start talking about kind of concepts right? You can start teaching them. Teaching somebody things in terms of you know instead of telling you a story about prince charming and this is how a man should treat a woman. You're going to learn through this story and internalized that maybe later on, we can say this is the essence of love and how love operates and Blah Blah Blah but stories narrative is how we how we structure reality and understand things and very, very profound way. Yeah. I've written a bunch of books. The two of the leadership books that I've written actually all three of the leadership books that have written are. Heavily based on stories stories from combat and then stories from the civilian sector. And and obviously people the feedback I get all the time and we have the principles written in there in extreme ownership in their leadership. We write the principal clearly in there. Hey, this is called covered move. This is what it means. But people never say Oh, thanks for spelling out the principal for me. They say Oh love the way you guys told the story in that I could see it. So yeah, this is not just something that we do for kids I mean the. With US sticks with US forever, and it's such a great way to to get your point across much more powerful way and for certain things, it's the only way. Right I. Mean. There's just like you're not gonNA tell somebody breakdown into philosophical concepts had a tie your shoes. You just got shown him and tell him i. do there are certain things that? You just have to use a story. That's the only thing that's really going to serve that purpose and elucidating the principles we are really doing there is saying, okay, you know all those stories this one, I just told you in the book. Yeah. But all those other ones you've always heard and there's that there's that thing that the leaders are doing something. This is what it is right and so you're drawing out that communality and those stories by stating the principles. interesting when you said. These you actually brought it up perfectly in my mind. When you said these stories, we tell ourselves can be unifying, and then that same story can become like a divisive type of tribalism right and it reminded me of this this book. call. It's book about the. Rwandan. Genocide by Philip Gourevich who also wrote a really powerful book on Abu Ghraib actually it's very, very You, know? Eric. Weinstein. Actually knows that guy believe he's married to a friend of their family and if at all possible I think it'd be a great guy for you to talk to certainly possible. Just incredibly, morally sensitive writer just a very, very interesting guy anyway, and so in this book about the Rwandan genocide, what's it called we wish to inform you that tomorrow will be killed with our families. I have that one I haven't done it yet. Man I I did Michetti season was kind of. All right. There's one there's one more maybe it's that one life life laid bare? Probably switching is by the same guy who wrote. Interviews the victims brutal. It's as brutal as you think. Yeah. and. So in this book, we wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families Goes through when it's just harrowing book as You can imagine at the end of it. He relates this story. That took place. As the genocide was winding down I believe in this girl's school in Rwanda. Some of the entire homeway militias were still running around the rebels had come back and we're pushing back against him, but this was still ongoing. And a bunch of them came into this girl school. And we're trying to figure out who are the Tuzi. So we can kill them all. And they were telling him you know who to girls on one side tootsie girls to the others and on the other side and either girl he's a grade school girls. They refuse to separate themselves out from the Tuzi girls in so that they could know who they were, and one of the girls said that there are no who Tuzi here. There are only Rwandans here. And a lot of them died they all the killed, all of them rather than kill none of them and eventually somebody came broke it up, but a lot of them died. And if you think of that like Whoa okay That's something that in a lot of context were told is a dirty word that's nationalism right I mean that's what it is. Nationalism in the United States is what got Irish people and Italian people in German people to say Oh Germany's attacking people in Europe. We gotta get together and go over there and stop them right. Very unifying thing. That same force is what got Germany to start the fight in the first place. And so identity is a very interesting thing because you go up above the blood level. And everything after the blood level is a story. That's what it is right and you need a story to keep it together. You look at a place like United States we need a story more than anybody.