Tory leadership battle hots up, and all change at Change UK Politics Weekly podcast
This is politics weekly. I'm Heather Stewart Naza time for us to believe in ourselves. What we can. And that's why I am standing to be leader of the conservative party Boris Johnson began his leadership campaign in earnest this week, telling him peas he was best placed to beat labor and put Nigel Farage back in his books. Meanwhile, leadership rivals queued up for an audience with Donald Trump as the US president blew into town for his photo opportunity with the Queen the contest kicks probably next week. So is it still for assist to lose this week? It's all change at change. You pay the six of eleven piece, depart, the flushing party. We talked to one of those sticking with it, Chris, Leslie. That's all in this week's politics weekly. And then there were eleven early casualties of the Tory leadership race this week were Kibble house, and James cleverly who withdrew as the party agreed new rules to weed out candidates with little chance of winning the six front runners with enough declared supporters are burst Johnson Dominic Robb, Jeremy hunt. Michael g-o-v such each of it. And Matt Hancock Johnson is current favorite to be anointed. His prime minister in the week of the twenty second of July, but a month is a long time in politics. Could we be looking at prime minister movement or dope, McVeigh by the summer while I'm joined to discuss all this by Katie balls from the spectator, and Ellie Mae o'hagan and Rafael bear from the guardian Katie was going to say you had a ringside seat at the hustings on Tuesday night, but you, you were the ringmaster hustings on Tuesday night, and we journalists most of journalists were outside in the corridor. Sad to say what, what was the mood like in there in the room managed to get a seat? So I was chairing the discussion and it was one one by one interviews. I think demeanor was fatty polite atmosphere. I think ahead of it, there was some talk that both could be heckled. And it was this is because it was the one nation caucus. So this is the group of conservative MP's headed up by Ambrosia NICKY, Morgan, now, I think there are lots of conservative MP's would describe themselves as one nation conservative term. Isn't it exactly? Specifically this group, they have the declaration of values which relate to things like having a United Kingdom the environment at free enterprise. I think what the best known for is don't like no deal, and they are opposed to nodule Brexit. So both Johnson describes himself as one conservative useless to saying that he went take canoe deal Brexit off the table. So there was some of you that this could be a real confrontation. But I think everyone listened to ever and had to say and before you an hour after gone splash on the front, free newspapers his comments, so love invasion did gap from the then of. Associates. Boris Johnson's pitch is was that he wasn't going to soften his new deal Brexit nine, but he did try and play up of the things that he would have in common with the MP's and the room. I think what's really benefiting Boris Johnson right now is someone called Dominic Robb because compared to Dominic Robb Bros. Johnson, seems less right? Win some of the MP's in the center of the Tory party on various issues, and that's making them think that if they have to have Brexit Hugh, is willing to countenance a deal Brexit. Bruce Johnson is a less bad option than someone like Dominic grump. I'm Michael go wrath last night. At the second round of these hostage not shared by Katie. We should say put himself in different position again. Didn't he said on what the idea of October thirty first? So he's the sort of even slightly more sensible Exeter's. Yeah. This has been Michael goes position for some time, which is essentially sort of the most as it was author, dogs, true believe of breaks. It's here up. To the point of accepting no deals. Because now for a number of reasons that he can't quite go that far and say, you know what? No deal is something we should do partly probably just because he is just a slightly more rigorous serious thinker than some of the people who prepared to go along with no deal. Chatting, I think he genuinely understands the hazard for the state for the economy. That would be involved in that I think, particularly the department that he was in, when he was environment. Secretary just introduced him to a lot of the practical problems that go along with doing no deal. And also, he has to recognize he's very tight cool politician, he recognizes that, you know, between. I think he's absolutely right. What she said about Dominic Robb based carving out this space football to be sort of as it were one row into simultaneous when you've got someone who's out in the oil, being completely bonkers and that's actually quite good position for Boris to be in. And so Michael really has to then pitch himself as insofar as a center of the conservative party unity. Can't that, that would be him. And I think broadly speaking, that is at least logically true. If you did a kind of a growth with a sort of X Y axis that sort of leave one end remain on the other tra- Thatcherite with slash and burn pros therapy on one, acts and one end sort of old skirts, though, wet invest spend money on stuff at the other end, and it sort of scatter plot on that axis of where all the parliamentary Tories are you'd probably find they've pretty much in the middle of that the problem is that being that Younes you can also means you alienate people on various fringes, but he, I think he's probably put himself in fairly tactically, g position and any took him out. Dominic mopping out out in the aisle. There last night's contribution from him was that he'd be willing to provoke parliament to suspend parliament, if necessary to get no Brexit, no deal Brexit food. That's pretty extraordinary, isn't it? Yes. Absolutely extraordinary. And I mean, this is a very cliche thing to save it. I, I wonder what the. Action would have been in if, if a labour MP had said that, I mean, I feel that people would have been saying it Stalinism is going to be tanks on the lawn of parliament square. You know, of course, perogie parliament is a crazy idea. And yeah, I think we should really reflect on what's going on in the conservative party. I think something really extrordinary is happening in that party. That is the case. Katie's ideas that would have seen credibly fringe now in mainstream discussion in the Tory polcy I would save on the parade and parliament comment. Dominic robb. He is that minority view of all the candidates, and actually, like a lot of people have reacted very badly to the idea. You're going to provide parliament, so I mean, it is something that you can't say they would do it in that room. It landed very badly and is interesting that in the hustings chat, every single Brexit he was saying, they would Constance emoji Brexit. So sad Javid. Andrea leads him and Boris Johnson explicit. Early route parading parliament. So I didn't think it is a majority view in the conservative party Andrew, let's inset that she consulted Klux at some point, and had wet this wasn't really viable option such Javid said that he's what parliament had to have a say. So, I think what you seeing is when it comes to Dominic Robb, what of the votes, he is going to try and make the final t now the European research group, that is a great gift, the eurosceptics of the policy that feel most strongly on having clean Brexit. Now, I think by having this dividing line between himself and Boris Johnson. I think it helps Boris jokes in many respects, I think Dominic Robb is trying to pick up this European research group votes to try and get further and free the rans, and he now has something to say, I am more serious about delivering no deal than my rivals less sanguine about the tool, even if it's only a tiny amount even if it's just only grow Francois talking about perogie Parman because Elliott this really is happening here is. Constant ratcheting of the parameters of was a normal discussion about what you should do in this country, further and further away from things that are practical. And so when you hit talk about a sort of global trade breaks or clean Brexit, or no deal Brexit. There's really no discussion of actually involves what practically that means. The reason Dominic Robb way, anyone would entertain parochial parliament is because there is this question of, could you actually persuade parliament, is that some potential parliamentary obstacle to delivering no do? And even the quite moderate will self stop motoric candidates in this race when they sable I wouldn't do not. We Michael go says, will we pretty have to get another extension their explanation is because parliament won't permit no do now? That's a pretty cowardly way of framing it. Because actually the reason not to do is because it's a terrible terrible idea. There's no such thing as a clean. Brexit, immediately often odeal your whole legal system, your economy in chaos your force back into in the Goshi action with the EU but for a much weaker position is properly bonkers. No one was seriously. Counseling in two thousand sixteen or twenty seventeen is only Lanzoni gender now and as the sort of the framing of the debate moves it just becomes a entirely normal thing to this Gus. And when half of the field of Tory candidates are prepared to discuss that quite normally that suggests a as was just said that the conservative parties in, that's a very peculiar place, ROY now when I'm part of that is because the backdrop of the discussion is what's going on impeachable this week where there's a by-election and Nigel. Farage is Brexit party looks as if it might do quite well, right. That's, that's what's in people's eyes were having this discussion. I think there is a sense that the Brexit party if you're going to the various frets to the Tory vote, the Brexit party frat is tina's at greater threat right now than the liberal Democrat vote now it's interesting. Lots of Tory candidates went to say, hey, we can actually win both voters back. I think never skepticism as how you unite voters who have said many times they want to know deal Brexit. They were only take that as being a Brexit that they would accept as fitting. Description, and how you those remained conservative OTC feel very isolated by the party and looking at the nipple Democrats. And I think he looked at the European election. Results teapot, is very well very clear Brexit positions. But completely opposing and that's a riddle I think every main party when it comes to working at had to get a big coalition of voters. I think on the Brexit polity point, there is a general sense, and I think you saw this in the hustings this week that such Javid stage loss of support. Actually, when he said the way to beat the Brexit party is by not being the Brexit party, and I think there are lots of Tory MP's you feel that you need to deliver Brexit. But you shouldn't be doing straight the noise Farraj playbook to do that anyway. Let's talk about Johnson was a briefing with a Tory poster Lord Haywood this week, who was saying he comes out with the most popular candidate. So he's the conduct people most not recognized like he also comes out the most unpopular candidate. He's an incredibly divisive, and polarizing figure isn't he would lay relish, the chance of taking on Boris Johnson to think gem, an election. I don't think that labor would relish taking on Boris Johnson though. I, I also think that we shouldn't underestimate Michael g-o-v is particularly fees. I mean I is total speculation on my part, but, particularly if he's still in contact with his old colleague, Dominic Cummings, then labor probably will be in trouble who, of course, helped run the vote leave campaigns by significant figure in the vote leave campaign. Yes. On this very talented, political tactician. Boris johnson. I think Boras he, he represents the kind of era that we're living in.