"We're going to talk about the controversy and really what's going on in Hawaii. The local voices that we've had a chance to talk to the concerns of the astronomers the science they WanNa do and maybe even some of the alternative places that that that might be chosen if it looks like. It's not GonNa work here in Hawaii and even what the future holds when the lease runs out right for the the existing observatories that are on Monica. So so where do you WanNa start so so to just review some of the history here back in nineteen sixties there. There was a lease arranged with the Hawaiian Department of land resources that would allow the University of Hawaii too. Well have have access to Monica a sacred mountain to the Hawaiian people at a cost of just one dollar per year and there were caveats to this. There could only be a certain small number of telescopes put up there. The indigenous peoples would need to be able to continue to have access to their sights on the mountain. This is a place as for people go to hunt to worship to well be part of this land that is so much a part of the Hawaiian culture culture and religious system now over the years different things have come to a head as astronomy has found ways to if you follow the letter of the law without following the spirit of the law so for instance Keck one into is counted as well one of those observatories even though it's two giant it multimedia telescopes act is one together right for ometer. Yeah sometimes sometimes if they need to do separate telescopes looking at separate objects yeah and and at the same time that this problem with the astronomers following the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law has been taking place. There's also been a change. In the local culture culture back in the eighteen hundreds the Hawaiian monarchy was overrun in the spirit of capitalism to allow essentially the white people who've been buying land to better well enrich themselves. Yeah teen control over the island. Yeah when he said Yeah and and and so I mean I think there are more than one hundred years of grievances just in general that that are have bubbled up in all kinds of places across Hawaii and and what's happening with the astronomers is just one example of this general region frustration about how first nations peoples have been treated needed. I mean really. I mean not just here in Hawaii but we have the same situation in Canada. There's a there's there's unresolved land disputes. That are happening in Canada Dan. I know what's happening in Australia. And and wherever you've got a first nations people who've been displaced you've got this pent up rage and frustration. That is looking for any of hot button issue to try and bring it up back again and and this is a great example again of of what what is perceived as a very large telescope being put in a very Sacred spot on the mountain. But it's just another example of people who aren't islanders making decisions coming here deciding what they wanna do and try and just steamrolling ahead until they get what they want and this. This is a case. Where at this moment when we're looking to build the thirty meter telescope telescope? It's that same moment in history when there is a resurgence of bringing back the Hawaiian language going back and recognizing that until the eighteen nineties that sovereign nation that was here they had a rich culture a rich international trading system. There are newspapers recordings. Is that allow that culture to be seen and brought back and these people that want to bring back their culture they also want to bring back their mountain as being there mountain and so you have a conflict of these strong reserves. But it's our mountain now astronomy. I don't care about your religion and these are the problems that we faced is over the past decade or so a large number of scientists have unfortunately put forward arguments along the lines of but my science. This is more important than your culture. And there's been a lack of listening and people have been litigating instead of building relationships and from a scientific standpoint. There's no question. Monica is without a doubt the finest place to put a telescope in the Northern Hemisphere. It is the tallest clearest most accessible mountain with some of the clearest views from the top of the of the summit. There's no question that it is that is really premior place to put a telescope. That's add it has other other purposes as well so we'll looks talk a bit about sort of what we understand the with the controversy of course with the new thirty meter telescope. That's coming in so let's talk a bit about sort of what the plans are to to. What mitigations they've already put in place for the thirty meter telescope nope to try to sort of understand? 'CAUSE 'cause I mean. My perspective has definitely been that that although they are still moving forward they are still getting sort of taking the court's judgement on on this they did try to work more closely in concert with local locals in the placement in the environmental concerns. And things like that. And so what we've been hearing at this conference. Is that in the day right after Christmas. It's a new accord was found where they were able to to get one of the tents that had been put up by protesters moved so that there is easier access us to the mountain. They have started to actually build. Well these starts a new relationship and this has been a recurring theme throughout the week. Where speaker after after speaker both from the indigenous peoples and from the strong community have been saying we made a mistake? We did not start from a place of building a relationship ship. Some of the arguments have been kind of week one of the things that was brought up. But Hey we're doing all of this education in the local schools but then when pressed. They admitted that those are the schools that astronomers kids are going to not the schools. The local kids are going to majority wise. There are some Adverts with the indigenous people school systems. And it's this disproportionate. Hey but look what we're doing from the community that when you dig deeper you realize oh that that doesn't mean what you think it means. That has a lot of people saying look you guys you really need to just step back and figure out. How do you build a relationship? That's built on respect and not on the yes but argument because the astronomers have really been trying to win this with yes but occasionally with yes and and not instead with let me sit down and listen and the message. I keep hearing the as we need to change this to let me just sit down and listen And there was a great presentation in one of the conferences from Greg. I Chun he was he was from the University of Hawaii in Hilo. And he's he said that they the and he's native Hawaiian and and and he said that they had taken they'd taken this step back and really had this opportunity to listen and to and to just understand from people people not. What's the solution but just to understand? What does the mountain mean to you? How does the mountain play into your personal spiritual practices? What are what is your definition of a shared use of this of this mountain? And what is that. Look"