Welcome to into the metric cody case weekly podcast about all things mental health I'm Ellen and that and stay, which has to procure girl well. She's a writer, speaker and behavioral scientists. She's join us on the podcast before twice most recently as a panelist on mentally yours live today. We're going to be talk about her new book sway. So you're joining us today to about a new book, Sway. What made you decide to write this? It's been. Longtime coming it was a combination of academic research I, did which was all about bias and technologies had been thinking about bias, and whose views represented and all the whole notion of power and hierarchy in data and I was working Lawton mapping technologies during my phd now so did that, but then also combination of my personal. Experiences as a woman as a woman of color as a woman in jammed the first IMMU lecture woman lecture appointment in appointed in a engineering department talk, leading engineers wideman the UK just navigating these spaces where you feel like. Sometimes you don't fit in you belong and then you kind of feel like you're part of the two words being almost British, but not quite Indiana, and all those kind of things and racially profiled at some point, having to talk to my twitter about race, but also sexism and misogyny all those things that the expediency your life, but that combined with my academic interest and research interests will interdisciplinary notional. What does bias and how it effects society kind of came together announcer allies that he below talking about a lot about unconscious bias in his working. Working with a number of organizations on diversity and inclusivity for a couple of years, and I was writing about it, but then it kind of was becoming like a trendy word, and people were just using it as a buzzword without really knowing what it means, and so I thought that really needed to know and do a deep dive into were Liamine unconscious by stuff in Detroit me a big crested by the o'briens. Worth is actually breaking down what it is. Yeah, it is a big question, and that's what the whole book is about. But in in brief, an Indus very simplistically, speaking is just biases within us those kind of 'em. Affect Us, our decisions and our judgments people on our interactions. which we sometimes are not aware of or reduced voice them or we don't realize them so so there are some explicit references like I would see I refer such vise, screen, or certain studio very explicit, but then when it comes to certain kind of. Implicit things that we have a template brain that are dependent on things we've learned to live these kinds of learned behaviors, but We don't know often that these are affecting the way of behaving and the decision making so those are our unconscious bias, and how can the book out people to understand their own personal biases and prejudices do what I really wanted to do. In a book is Great. This kind of non-judgmental, very non Peachy, and so a couple of people who read the book like Endless Sania indicate shook line, and and they also said that it's a very non-policy kind of non preachy attitude to to bias because people can get very defensive when you start talking to them or devices, and so I didn't really want to. Stand on my soapbox and talk about it, but in the way that I brought in research and facts and evidence, what functional stories also and combined a lot of different disciplines slowly and enter and kind of innovating accessible manner, I hope that s even region they become more aware of how these vices effect. Decisions and instructions in a way that sometimes we not one, but then it helps them gives them a space to actually start reflecting on, get on buses, and this is what people all the readers were reading. Are telling me that they hadn't you convey lie some things that they come across in the book and they are really becoming a Morterero. The kind of prejudices the might carry without them realizing it things they've learned and also wanted to talk more about not just the racism and sexism, but also Regina biases that you can talk about, but also other kinds of biases, helmeted biases like hindsight bias st to scope is in how we interpret information on how politics autism politics affects our view of the world, and on ageism and accents and also big areas. Technology in bias, really wanted to talk to all these things in we by bringing in as many. Studies personal stories and contemporary case as possible so that people get four fledged you a framework of bias.