Listen: The logistical mess of trying to clean up Youtube
"On today's daily charged supercharged edition diving on youtube score problems with its creators and how unionizing may or may not really be the answer uh-huh so is actually kind of quiet today and i'm wondering if that's actually something algorithm at play. Perhaps the fact that the topic of the show joe is kind of bashing youtube youtube is somewhat burying us sure. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but <hes> well this unfair. I know this is one of the things because everything is transparent. It's opaque with with youtube. We don't know if the reason that there aren't very many people there are fewer people will the normal that would be in our livestream. We don't know if that's because people are just not interested. We don't know for getting albert. Mic lee depressed or suppress. These are the kind of things that small to medium youtube youtube channels wanna know and they aren't getting at that's why they're making these pushes. Okay bye does youtube. Oh the anything that's that's the thing they are creating a video for the platform in a lot of cases. What is it one of one of the folks that you you interviewed said that <hes> <hes> they create suffer facebook and twitter as well facebook and twitter do not send them a check youtube sends them check so beyond that does is it necessary for them to have have more of a relationship <hes>. It seems at least at this point youtube doesn't seem to think so by the union is arguing for changes <hes> you you know having a human on the other side actually explained things on its face. It seems to make a lot of sense but how many of those employees are actually going to have to exist to be able to explain things in the same time you get into a lot of nuance in a lot of nitty gritty <hes> and you might have to explain certain things about <hes> the algorithm gerrad them and how to actually operates. I can really just see how youtube would have a big problem trying to explain some of those things especially through a human operator right well this situation right now. The the question is does youtube. Oh them anything. It's both yes and no it depends on how you look. At what is the backbone phone of youtube like what's youtube would be nothing without content creators willingly uploading their content. If all of the small to medium ones disappeared and went to another platform that would mean youtube still have tons of us but it wouldn't have the diversity of community that it has house because part of the thing that makes youtube youtube is not just pudi pies there. It's that you can also watch composting educational videos which is all the the great thing about youtube and the bad thing about you. There's so much content. It's almost impossible for them to handle what they've created at the scale and i'm includes youtubers demand so what youtube saying is that it's gotten to the point where you need to address user safety. You adjust brand safety for advertisers. You've put those on the front burner but you aren't putting us on the front burner. We're gonna make thank you at least address. The address a possibility that you'll take our needs as seriously as those are certainly curious to see how things move forward the l._g._b._t._q. T. q. plus lawsuit because not having watched any of that content. I am certainly wondering why that would get demonetized just or they are. That's why they're doing. They don't know they feel like it must be something like their claim is that there's no other explanation that is just discrimination that it's a gay thing as a as they have been told by somebody at the company when they're on like a service call okay wow that is certainly unfortunate and sounds like it merits a lawsuit so we'll see what happens. Obviously i think i actually don't know what they've said what their actual statement on the suit is <hes>. I'll pull it up because in fairness. We should say how google has responded so far. They haven't had an official legal response. I haven't filed anything yet <hes> but as brian launch you give us some questions and i'll make sure that we get that up so we can give their side well update. We have been democratized. I'm shocked. I'm looking at it right now like it was because of the bleeping or do you think it's because of other other just no way that their algorithm works so fast that it caught the bleeps and besides there bleeps that's the point reyes is because because we tag the show with fair tube against whatever it's it's a new show whatever but i think that the issue here is this is the kind of thing that frustrates a lot of youtubers that are on the aren't on the scale of a p._d. Pie or your brothers or even or even to find brothers which is smaller. It's like one fifth the size of that you know right. We just don't know why it is important to mention that. Obviously we started a new channel and we have under five hundred subscribers subscribers at this point but this is not our <hes> this is this is not how we're paying the bills like were seen at employee and we don't get paid whether other youtube sends us money or not like that doesn't end up in our bank accounts which gives us the opportunity to talk about whatever the hell it is that we want to talk about whether the were demonetized for the a day or night <hes> but it is interesting how quickly i'm glad you brought that up ben <hes> but the point hand is not about the money this this is clearly headhunting on youtube part and that's a form of censorship. I didn't even know the term. Censorship is it's. It's a squishy term because censorship serbia some people would say it's a private plot for it's a privately owned company <hes>. It's not a government utility. It's not like you have a right to free speech on youtube they ah within their rights to to to algorithm mickley not recommend or or depress anything that they want <hes> what their stated stated premise is that it's here to be an open forum to the extent that that's safe you bring up a great point as far as whether people have first amendment rights on major platforms. That's an argument argument legally. They don't that's an argument. That's currently being considered at least as <hes> we start to discuss the potential break-up of big tax or talking talking about facebook google amazon and help me out here. It's not microsoft. Never mind the big guam all the big ones so it's one of the arguments especially as it relates to youtube and facebook as you know. Have they become so big that <hes> some people do have some level first amendment rights to say whatever it is that they want to say on those platforms and when they do become demonetized or deep platforms or whatever you wanna call it some sort of legal argument against that that goes back to the lawsuit that we were discussing previously i would also say though that <hes> that legal argument at least in terms of optics i think would have been stronger than make like four years ago or three years ago. I feel like since we've entered through this era where we are so much more skeptical of these gigantic platforms not in terms of save us having speech but of the fact that they allow too much free speech <hes> there's been so much backlash against you know objectionable content speech those sorts of things that didn't it wasn't part of the conversation nearly as much three years ago four years ago right. I remembered what the fourth companies it's apple but apple is treated the same way ought not only that but like a lot of the arguments related to the break-up of big tech related to apple have a lot to do with how they operate their app store where they're both a player and a coach they operate the platform perform and they also have apps on the player and a coach in a rough actually yes. They're all there every more like a player in a referee right yeah exactly they run the platform perform and they're also on the platform and therefore there are a lot of <hes> considerations as far as whether they are appropriately running things in a fair way for everybody. That's involved in that system right so but yet they're certainly from from my perspective. They seem to be getting way less heat as it relates to this than i facebook facebook seems to be the one. That's getting the most attention but i feel like youtube. There's a lot of free speech consideration there too and that's why you know this is an interesting conversation to discuss as far as what this union is hoping to get out of those and you know the fact that youtube facebook youtube the entire collection of companies is facing so much pressure on so many fronts. That's another reason why i feel like creators like those that are represented by this union. <hes> feel like they're not getting their voices heard because there there's not a backlash of people they'll be a backlash over objectional content being served the kids on youtube kids being exploited on you to be a backlash against hate speech on youtube to a certain certain extent depending on what kind of speech it is <hes>. There's not really a backlash for people that feel like they're being unfairly democratized or not getting the due conversation from the fat from that as well. That's one interesting argument that you mentioned is is that in your story it was it was kind of like a one of one of the more cynical arguments about the union was are these smaller medium sized players frustrated that they're not bigger that they aren't some of the more successful players because like hey if you were if you were good at this. Maybe you'd be bigger and you wouldn't can have to complain so much. I mean like a pretty tough thing to say to somebody but at the same time when you're talking about unionization starting to bash the platform so you can see that there could be that kind of backlash to yeah and you know i think that so hank green and i talked about this in my story about how there's just. It's a lotta things at play here. The reasons why big youtubers wouldn't be responding. They don't want to bite the hand the feeds them they have a stake in not rocking the boat and also so there is an element of not only like if you were just complaining because you're channels not big enough in the point that he made is that yeah there's a strain of that maybe in some very large youtubers thinking partly because those big youtubers notice sacrifices they've had to make in order to stay as big as they are but i think most being youtubers understand that lottery who gets to be gigantic you it's table stakes that you have to work hard for it and commit your life to it in order for you to become gigantically stratospheric successful on youtube but some of those just look and they didn't get as lucky as me also hang hang space point. Is that sorry. Sorry just didn't hit the lottery and like i. They should have picked different number. Why aren't you smarter thanks. It's true that there's that vein possibly in some large thinking but it's also important that they realized that that's not the only thing going on here that there are some legitimate concerns for these small to medium size is a great point though i really i really appreciate that argument because it's you know there are a lot of things that really involve involve luck and when you look at kind of the opacity of the youtube algorithm along with a lot of other algorithms exist online. That's an addition. You're layering on top top of that just like the life lottery of you know. know. It was your timing right did you did you hit the right audience that kind of stuff too so those those two elements can can obviously obviously bake in a lot of uncertainty as far as whether you know you're you're a huge channel or not for the guy. That's really pushing the this union. I wouldn't have expected somebody eh builds. I dunno souped-up. Slingshots have two million viewers two million subscribers so at least to me. That sounds like a lie. I don't know maybe people alive alive and even less than that is it just depends on you know if you're trying to make it your livelihood you know people who write about educational occasional topics have a lot less trouble with the monetization they can have a channel with fewer videos and fury subscribers fewer views because maybe like two thirds of what they're writing about doesn't get democratized where like if you were say a news channel that talks about controversial topics sometimes like build a franko go or if you're transgender youtube earn you're talking about sexuality on a regular basis which also has tendency to bump up against what seems to be the unclarified criteria about what is okay and what is not okay so. I'm glad you brought up filled franko because i knew something what happened with filter franko like a couple years ago speaking out about youtube right so can can you remind me a bit about this because there was a case as where a major youtuber was speaking out about concerns with the platform right so that was the hashtag youtube is over party that so philly maybe if i remember right like going back into my my files if i remember right the reason for that that was a particular it was a demo basically democratization issue and i believe what happened at that point was <hes> youtube was making what should have been a very small mall tweak. I think what they were doing is they. Were trying to be more transparent with youtube creators in that previously. I don't think that there was a easy way to see in one place which of your videos were demonetized and so they wanted to be more transparent and create a way for you to see which ones were demonetized. The effect of that was that people realize oh. All of these videos are demonetized and so some people thought that they had been like all in one fell swoop on all of a sudden <hes> and that happened to filter franko. I can't remember the specifics if he actually noticed that he obviously he and his team keep very close. Run a tight ship and keep close watch on their channel. I can't remember if they actually noticed instances of like one day. They had so many videos radio's democratizing the next day. It was a lot more or if it was a combination of like they just realized more more. I'm not sure how it actually but it goes to the point of opacity casati passing so how how large influential youtuber can get the conversation going 'cause the hash tag youtube over party was trending on twitter all day <hes> <hes> that hasn't happened with with this thing but there hasn't been like a crystallizing moments and make people feel outraged enough to rally their supporters to work for this collective unified costs"