Mary frank johnson. Welcome to technician. It's great to speak with you. Thanks so much. Peter i always enjoy talking with you. I do as well so please on the record at this point. I'm i'm as somebody who is a luminary ao space. You do not need a big introduction with my audience. I don't imagine but you are perhaps best known. As former editor in chief of cio magazine the the moderator of the cio leadership live broadcast which is just a phenomenal phenomenal series of interviews with with leaders in the tech space x os with a healthy dose of course of chief information officers as the name suggests and a prolific writer. Somebody who's wisdom. I know my team. And i have have gained mightily from across the years as well so i'm so pleased to to have this more formal conversation after many many informal ones with you okay. Well thanks very much peter. I we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about indeed indeed wipe. We begin at the beginning at least as relevant to the cio space. You're not somebody who grew up with immersed in technology You are somebody who The written word came the more easily to the dentist too many others. Perhaps and and you were focused on journalism. I wonder what was what was the genesis of your time In focusing your skills on the cio. Space okay thanks. Exxon question and i love telling the story because i think that it reflects so much of how many of the it leaders cio's that we both know today ended up in the positions that you know they were music majors or they majored in english literature and history and then they got really interested in data side of things for me. I had started out. I spent ten years at daily newspapers. In florida and ohio in washington state and i reported on everything from city and county commission beats to k twelve education to police even state politics when i was two bureau chief for gannett news service out in columbus ohio and then we were moving to the boston area in nineteen eighty nine. My husband was an atmospheric scientist and he was taking a job in cambridge and so naturally i went reached out to the boston globe and to the boston herald and the it was. Nobody was hiring. So i was. We were arriving in the boston area. And i had heard about a very vibrant technology publishing world here and so i had examined it somewhat and made some phone calls A lot of this was so far before the days of regular emails. And you know we weren't living on our phones. Then so i was just applying my reporter skills to it. And i ended up getting a copy of computerworld mailed to me and sat there. I remember sitting there in my living room in ohio looking through it and feeling somewhat reassured that i could understand about what have the stories were about And then on the drive from ohio to massachusetts. I basically grill my husband One side down the other about the computer industry. Because i was coming into it only knowing that ibm made typewriters and the rest of it was kind of a big mystery. But i had been using some of the very early unix. That was vi editor on unix. That you could use to do work on. He had some sun workstations and very early versions of sun and unix workstations at our house and so i used that a little bit. And i remember when i was in my interview for the computer job with The executive and executive editor in the editor chiefs of computerworld. I think they were very impressed. That i was referring to things like vi editor in youth so but computerworld at always hired. They hired reporters who could learn the beat. And i think that's pretty much the way almost everybody on the tech journalism side got into it. They were journalists bite training. Then they do. They dove into their beats. Because one of the things we discovered trying to hire people over the years if you try to higher in a technical person and hand the technology beat they wouldn't know the story angle with fell on them so it was really important if you were genuinely out there reporting And then i found enjoyed it. I just enjoyed it so much and by the time i was a couple years into my job at computer world when the boston globe was to interview people and hire all. But i wouldn't left for anything at that point it just it was such a. I just enjoyed the way. The story kept changing and advancing and moving forward.