Bumble, Joanna and Mary Aitken discussed on Diane Rehm: On My Mind

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

You. Quick. Hi coach here. I hope you enjoying on my mind and I also hope you checking the Cogil nomme de show. We connect the dots between events happening in Washington, Maryland, and Virginia, through conversations with politicians artists chefs the list goes on. You can listen to our podcast on demand by subscribing on your favorite podcast app. So you never miss an episode and we're back Joanna. Cho's is cheap content up, sir. At Hearst magazines. She has a new book. It's titled love rules how to find a real relationship and digital world Joanna coz was a pleasure to talk with you. Well, thank you. The pleasure is entirely mine. You call your book. Love rules had diet book for dating. Tell me how and why. So you see that analogy between dating and eating well for two reasons. Diane one, I was very conscious as I was at a tour of both calls my amd of Mary Clara how much time women spend thinking about food. And I was also. Somewhat bewildered myself by the number of food books, outlet telling us how to eat well and whether or not the government's food pyramid was in fact the right thing should we be stocking up home Cobb, so we'd be down loading more protein. I'm the more I thought about it. The more I thought food and love have so much in common in that we can't live without them. We have huge appetites the both, though the stuff of life that where we celebrate and yet that both complicated Justice, there is extrordinary junk food available. Now, there is also junked love on their toxic relationships with impact is just as much as a diet of toxic food and the more I thought about it. The more I realized we need a nutritious diet for the long haul in both. I worry that dating apps, brilliant though they are can feel like a. One of those food courts where you have so much choice. And yet at the end of it, you eat something you feel you've made the wrong choice and still hungry. How well do you think those a dating apps actually work? Well, I think they work extraordinarily well, if you use them as a tool to expand your life, I think if you use them assuming that every swipe might lead you to the one that you are going to be crushingly disappointed. They're the most brilliant tools for connecting people who might not have met each other. Otherwise, one of my favorite stories is a story from bumble of a couple that were living in the same building, but because of different schedules never actually met each other a NAN eventually they did. And of course, now they can show one apartment great new real estate story. They gave up one and and the at bought them together. But I think if you're looking for the app to do the work of actually getting snow, someone fool you, it can't do that. But the great tools that great arrows in our quiver to find move relationships. But you know, you talk about these dating apps. People get connected excited over these apps, but then our sewed disappointed when they actually mate. Well, I think one of the problems with is a behavioral problem around how people connect online. And so when you make matchel, you swipe and someone swipes back, the tendency is to then embark on this lengthy quite flirtatious text exchange. An online people behave in very disinherited ways that they don't actually do if they was sitting opposite each other all sitting next to each other. And so the then a tendency to assume you know, this person better than they do. And I quote the psychologist, Mary Aitken whose work on all digital behavior is incredibly interesting, and she talks about what happens in a computer mediated environment where the tendency is to give pulses attributes to the gaps in on knowledge about people. So if Ventura you get that relationship off-line and meets. Someone in the flesh, you think you are meeting a completely different person to who you are actually meeting Aitken talks about bringing four selves to the date. You'll to online sales, which are these created persona, and then your actual selves were hooping that you're going to have a connection. And of course, you've often invested a lot of time online in these communications, so it can feel doubly disappointed when you sit down and then realize you don't have a connection. I was thinking of that many people put fictitious out 'Tribute about themselves online. What do you think that? Well, when people filling out the profiles regardless of which dating out their own, so it could be hominy or. Okay, cupid match or bumble. Tinder hinge will happen. You can tell how many there are, and I'm just at the beginning. I always say think of it as a dating resume, so don't ever lie in a resume and don't say you like hiking on it. If you don't like hiking, if you'll idea if a nightmare going outside you, you need to be true to who you on. Now. That doesn't mean you might not enjoy hiking, but don't pretend to know more than you do about something because you will be found out, and that's very unattractive quality in some on the idea that they exaggerate or they lie about things to appease what they think other people will won't. So I think the key is to be sort of truthful and CEO curious about exploring new things by all means, but don't lie because you're gonna get caught out. You're going to be forced to go on the hike nightmare. If your, if your idea of putting even sneak on his house. But you know, Joe, and it does seem to me that people used to have so many more opportunities to connect with potential suitors potential lovers, meeting people at church, meeting people at work, meeting people introductions from other friends. Why have we turned so incredibly frequently now to these online apps? It's a fantastic question on unusual observation that that we don't go to church as much as we used to in that used to be a place, sort of social place for people to go. Thanks social place, a safe social space, and I think a place where people could go and admit they didn't have the onces way. You sat in a collective group and nal. Alleged that that with things beyond this and things we're all wrestling with, which is really the connective tissue of human nature in a way. I think the fact that people don't have that routine of going to judge synagogue, oh, temporal. Most as much as they did is is really quite fundamental actually to white people are using apps and of cool. She mentioned wound people meeting at work. Now, inevitably people do me at work, but post me to post time's up, much more complicated for people to have relationships at work. And I think if you are embarking on a relationship at what you do need to let someone else, no, this is not something you can do necessarily in secret anymore, and unfeeling k. an i. everybody to figure out what that h r rules are around that an end to assume that they will apply to them. I think people often think they are an exception. It work and then upset to. That not an, of course, people will continue to to to meet partners at work because it's where often people turn up with their best selves, working intensely on projects where people fall in love. But I think in the way that we've contracted out knots of parts of our lives to digital. So we've done this to with dating lives in the idea that perhaps it's easier an friends on setting up if we're not running into people at church or synagogue or temple, that somehow we can contract this complicated part of our lives out and to some extent we can. I mean, what's brilliant is an app that can help you create more connections, but it can't foster would love it. Kant microwave, the process of getting to know someone that is old fashioned, hot work of of showing up establishing I contact talking to each other. Not just being on your device. Wonder whether you feel the experience said, abusing these apps is different for women than it is for man. The experience of using these apps is undoubtedly different for women, not least because they get a lot of incoming unexpected mail. They got a frequently inappropriate photos videos when you talk to people who've used them for long time. You note this sort of often world weariness about some of the things that they have been subjected to. One of the reasons I like bumble is that it allows women's make the first move bumble was started by Whitney Wolfe, HUD, who was also a co, founder of Tinder, actually, when she left tended to start bumble initially, her idea was to create a social network where people pay each other compliments, and it was a positive on. Online environment, but women absolutely have different expectations. I think than men in a note to men here a dick pic is not necessarily your best opening it. It's not your best opening gambit. Joanna, we've had a message from John on Facebook who says it

Coming up next