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Introducing the Movie Director Game with Sam Esmail

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We have a special sort of conversation. Here we're joined by Mister Robot. Creator the Creator of the film comet The director of Amazon's homecoming. Yes Sam. Esmail saying what's up. Hello how are you? I'm so excited to be here. I'm such a fan. Oh that's very sam. You wanted to play a game with us. I did now. I want to know why you wanted to play that game with us and I also want you to explain the game. Well explaining it okay. I'll let me start by saying I'm a huge film. Learn as I think anybody who listens to the watch probably already gust. And I've always played this game with all my film nerd fans and so I figured one when I started listening to your podcasts. Which obsessed with a huge fan of I figured especially with Amanda Sort of counterpoint? To talk to your thinking Shawn's like I just thought this'll be a fun game to play the game. Basically and again. This is sorry for listeners. Who are not going to be in on this because it's so inside. It's not even that insight. It's but it's it's really not OK okay. I won't apologize here. We go is a good game in and you deserve it. It's the best director per decade and the best director who die who had their debut. That decade does that make sense. Did I explain this? Should we use an example to help people understand it? What's an example that we won't? Won't you trample on the choices that we've made here? Well we look at this decade. We had we had like a number of actually great film. Directors made their debut Jordan. Peele with get ou- Greta Gerwig with Lady Bird Vince Gilligan Man. This favorite with El Camino until nineteen many wonderful. Thanks well actually. Gertler made no thanks. But it's it's it's it's it's. It's good to bring up Vince. As an example because he actually that was his feature directing debut which is all coming up. Now the thing is it's not necessarily not saying what's the best directorial debut? Just the director that we appreciate. The most made that debut made their debut in that decade so I think that there's a couple of semantic complications around now and you know as well as I do that there are student films. Their short film features so. Let's lay the groundwork. Because Vince directed episodes of Britain. He directed the pilot breaking bug which I think was in the prior decade but we're talking feature directorial debut so that seems easy to Parse. It's not as easy to Parse as it seems. Now tell me why well. Are you talking about dual are GonNa be Spielberg is is a particularly complex example? Because of nine or you're talking about nine gallery 'cause that's TV while he made a movie when he was seventeen called firelight for five hundred bucks and is that a film. Is that a feature film even his parents saw. I wouldn't say a featured like a debut meaning. It was released in movie theaters got it. Okay commercially available. Commercially available attack. Those are good ground rules. I'm glad that we established that play into my less later on. I do consider to be because it didn't get released in theaters. Well it is a feature film but it was not this little guy but that is considering his feature debut his first full length movie right what. What's the movie after that? Then Land Express okay all right so yes we'll stick to that okay before we play the game now. The people understand the game I want but just add one other thing the interesting thing about this game and I think will when we go through. We'll see it's where the decades are hard because there's just so many amazing options and where the decades are not A. There's not a lot of options. I just find the conversation around that to be interesting because lanes a little bit about where movies are and where they're doing exactly specifically the nineties which I thought was just a burst of like creative inspirational film makers and then the very decade after the ONS which I struggled I struggled to find. I have some counterpoint to that point but I I wanna use this as an opportunity to pick a bone with you. Oh Wow okay I resent you. I resent your your appearance on this podcast because what I what we need. What this podcast needs is people like you making movies and television shows will but you love movies and you film in a very discreet way. Yes but and I mean I guess we're going to get into it right now. It's gotTa think about think about indie filmmakers. What happened let's say Ryan Kugler? Who Loved Fruitvale? Right mazing what happened to him. After he made fruitvale he went into the machine he went into the machine. And that's what's happening with a lot of these other directors and that. That's the difference between the nineties and now so I think. Pta came out with holiday today. Is he making you know Batman in two years and by the way no not dissing on Batman? I'm excited for When Matt Raises Version of it? Because I'm a fan of his but I think it's just the industry is dictating a lot of what directors are doing now and you know and not to 'em this point that's the machine that we're in right now so and that's more reflective of the decade so t to to get to my TV point. Tv's where you get to make the interesting shit. I don't know if I could have made mister robot as a feature in fact I tried well. That was my fault. Got a little long winded. With how long was that? That forty five. Our film now That feature from I wrote ninety pages of wasn't even into act tune. That's when I realized I was in trouble. Was there a divergent path for you where after comet you could have just doubled down and said I'll stay. I'll continue to stay kind of broke but I'll keep making movies will. Yeah I mean that was the plan I was going to make Mr Buzzing indie feature and got stuck with it and Steve Golan Who You know owns anonymous content who Read the pages of Missouri Button at the time detective had just come out and he just He had just produced. That and I thought women that will this is fucking coal. And I don't need to do anything with this. I don't need to refashion the script that I had in mind and fitted into this to our box and honestly I was just really more. I remember thinking I was way more excited about true detective than I was about anything. Elsa came out there. Trust them into. What are your thoughts on true detective because I have no idea? I don't love thank you. Yeah I think I think I see yes. The first season I think true detective on its face is like a accomplished piece of television filmmaking and also I'm a huge fan of cary Fukunaga always and forever Perhaps not for the same reasons. Assess it to me actually wrap. It was such a turning point. Anything his best thing that he's done. I'm not even going to say Jane Eyre Okay. I haven't I haven't seen that I haven't seen the new Bond movie I but I'm really looking forward to it because I'm also a bond person and also I just you know I think true true detective as this carries best thing. I think that's probably true but my issue with detective is not actually true detective itself. It is the dialogue around your detective. And also I think that's a pivot point in terms of when and how we started evaluating TV in terms of tracking shots and the actual just the athletic like filmmaking as a way to bring the an experience. What is this athletic yet? Flex now and then on twitter people are now saying slaps what what is all? I don't understand that you want to explain the Internet. Let's start with the athletic because Amanda I. I've heard you use a lot and I've I've been on a lot of sets of never heard anyone say the words. I think the first person he was at my friend on the TV critic Philip asking and I think it puts its finger on this idea of money that you bring her up because she wrote this she wrote. It was a harsh. I mean whatever I respect her reviews she dissed my one episode of Mister Robot whereas all one tracking shot. I assume yes is what you mean by athletic because I do think that Filmmaking and TV and everything is more than cameras and more than where the camera is and there is such a absolutely station online. The damore as more aspect of filmmaking and I think that the tracking shot is caption of that and just like. Oh Wow. Did you see what he did. That was so cool. Oh my God. The camera is moving. You know don't you think it but don't you think has a to me every every sort of choice that you make with the camera has an effect and yes to some extent it it takes you out of it and draws attention to itself but to some extent. I really I mean what do you think of the Copacabana Sean? And I and I and I do. Actually I think even tracking protective is effective. But you know we're doing a podcast right now. That isn't essentially about how we talk about. Film and like establishing a Canon of source. And the cannon is so reliant on where do we put the camera and what did they itch on showing us an either. Don't respond to that artistically at some point. I'm just like Yay like fancy camera. Shots you got it. Congratulations to you but I do also think it distracts from the other equally important. I feel making that. Don't get enough credit. I think code is also a specifically athletic is code for Masculinity. You know it's code for this sort of The might of the male filmmaker. Now that's not always true if you watch like strange days for example. Kathryn bigelow is doing a lot with the camera yet. It is unorthodox and cool and might have what would otherwise be deemed kind of masculine energy. But I do think that true detective and largely the dialogue like you're saying was about a lot of dudes being like Yo. This is sick now. Personally I thought it was sick. Oh okay but I I would. I was not a fan of those scripts and I don't think that story is very strong but I thought that was really well

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