A highlight from The Shifting Role of Religion vs. Faith with Diana Butler Bass


Welcome to the for the love podcasts. With megyn maker. Today we are diving. Back into our transition series. Been talking about all the ways. We have seen church and other spiritual spaces transition and evolved over the past few years. We will look at where the church is going. And if it's possible to bring back to life with author an independent scholar diana butler pay everybody maker here. Welcome to the for the love podcast. I'm your very very happy host so right now you guys. We are in a series called for the love of transitions. Just felt like this where we're at right now in our personal lives in our communities in our churches in our culture. We're moving from what has been to. What will be in a lot of ways in a lot of ways and so as we talk through all kinds of transitions actually in this series one in particular. That obviously means a lot to me. That i'm watching. That i care about is what we're witnessing within the church the transitions inside and when i said a church leader. That's a huge umbrella term for lack of a better way to describe it. I would say the institution of the church right. Let's think of it like that. I mean obviously there's a literal transition for you know the majority of us in twenty twenty. There weren't there wasn't there wasn't in-person church live services at churches were shut down which had an effect on our communities and we are transitioning right now back into some of the old structures and what that end leaving behind. Frankly but what. I'm gonna talk about today with my guest is more if the soul level because statistically speaking unambiguously there is a downturn a big downturn in the number of people who affiliate themselves with a certain religion or denomination and less and less people who are even calling themselves christians in twenty nineteen only sixty five percent of people who affiliated themselves with a religion identified as christian which is a downtick of twelve percent over the last decade which is a lot in ten years that is a lot and meanwhile on the flip side of that those who described their religious identity as atheist or agnostic or nothing in particular now stands at twenty six percent which is up seventeen percent from ten years ago. What does this mean. This is what we're gonna talk about today. What does this level of transition main this fast level of transition. What does it mean for people. What is under what is inside of this. What what's the nuanced way to think through these shifts. What do we think it's going to mean. Let me just say up front. There's one school of thought around this which is probably what i grew up in this perspective that i was taught which is essentially. This is just par for the course like we godless world. And it's all going to hell in a handbasket and this was to be expected. And you know whatever's last is the faithful remits and i guess we're just going to sit in the pews and watch the world. Burn down around us. Because that's always going to happen and we can blame all this on immorality or godless nece or a lack of faithfulness or whatever right like kind of casting. A shame blame on people who have left the church or leaving or want to leave. I really believe that i. That's not my faith perspective at all. I don't think that's how it is. I see the primary source of disillusionment where we see people. Unable to hold a label they once had even unable to go to a church. They went as not at all a result of facelessness. I see it as a result of a complete disconnect in disassociation with the institution. It's the institution that is failing. Not the people. And that honestly i mean. I don't know if this is an unpopular thing to say but it's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. I think enormous parts of the institution have failed. So let them fail. Let them fail. Let them run out of steam. Left them run out of gas. Because you can't take faith or god away from anyone. The church never had the rights to which they don't hold the deed right to what a flourishing faith looks like in a human heart and so my sense of it is that more and more people are unwilling to settle for an institutionalized faith that is so clearly at odds with jesus and his words and the way he lived in what he told us to care about and so the cognitive dissonance became too much. That's what i think. That's what i see. And i am very deeply on record having walked through my own transition inside my system publicly for the last. I'm gonna say ten years. But i increasingly find jesus i find healing and i find wholeness in hope and faith

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