1106 Jon Tobin: User Friendly Law For Creative People


Clients to build strong brands, setup tight contracts, and make sure that they have a solid business setup not billable hours at least in the model that we're GonNa talk about today this is a subscription base and easy to plug in program welcome John To. The Nice. Guys on business podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here I'm happy to have you here John and I wanna I wanNA talk about this year actually an attorney that speaks real like layman's words I do my best. Yeah, and do my best sometimes I. Veer into attorney speak but I think we get to eighty ninety percent. It well I just in the setup of this and going through it. You were very laid back very casual. Sometimes, that's the challenge to get somebody to actually come down from the. Let me tell you something about what I do perspective and actually have them just meet in the middle and sometimes for me that's down in the dirt a little bit just. need to understand stuff. So. Is that really where you think the council for Creatives, I, it creators actually aligns itself or how do you think what advantages do you think company has in working with your Your company. Or a whip individual for working with your company Yeah I mean I think that's one of the core principles that we have in our company, which is to make it so that the law as you kind of mentioned. Is User friendly right. So there's you know laws something that I think a lot of people are afraid of or they've been monitoring Ziobro about or a lot of confusion about, and so I sort of see our job as translating legal stuff into real world stuff because it is important and it's part of every business, and so I think that it's a disservice if we were to obfuscate that if we were to make that too confusing for people. So we wanted sort of bring it down to. A level that people can understand more importantly applied to their business. So let me back up just a second because I, probably did you a little disturbed by not letting at least explain a little bit a your story somebody might that might be listening might be able to relate to exactly what you've been through to to bring it to this level. So how did you join Council for creators? Were you a part of the founding part of it tell me a little bit about how that worked. Yes. So I started council for creators in two thousand thirteen and we've we've grown partner. Now we have other people who work with us on our team but this sort of genesis of the whole thing was when I was in law school. So before going to law school I was actually a software developer and designer I worked on a lot of large-scale websites in was designing. Their worked freelance work for startups I worked I I. Wish Companies in one of the things that occurred to me as I was in law school after that career is a lot of the legal stuff that I was learning about contracts or copyrights or trademarks would have been really useful. Had I known it as a designer and it's you know it's not that it's all super complicated. Stuff, it's just there's some basic principles in a month. Wow. Had I known that? I think I would have gotten a lot of value out of that knowledge and information. So that's what I'm trying to bring people so I remember actually some of the first earlier visits to an attorney when I was incorporating fortunately, I had a friend able to help me through it, but I can recall just having conversations with him just about the way that he practices his business or carries out his business in. So much of law is wrapped up in billable hours in that makes a guy like me who is. Maybe not the deepest pockets in the world. It makes me get a little nervous that, hey, every time I, go into to see my attorney I'm concerned am I going to rack up four hours of billable hours at three hundred bucks an hour and have a twelve hundred dollar bill on the other side of it i. know you guys have a different model but I want to talk about the fear of that that many people you know have when they come and talk to somebody that might be an attorney. Yeah. It's a legitimate fear and I. think that's one of the things we wanted to address early on I think for some law firms in some situations that works and maybe the reason why is if you're dealing with let's say complex litigation right and we don't know. How much time? It's GonNa. Take a turney re how much attorney resources are needed. Billable hours is to sort of best way to approximate value but I think for a lot of people who are setting up businesses or trying to get that basic foundation set We already have a sense of what it's GonNa take already know there's no, there's some variability, but it's not like we have no idea how long it's GonNa take to do a trademark. So we have to just bill hourly and maybe it's four hundred bucks maybe it's four thousand we don't know you know we kind of know what the average is and so you know if we're doing something like that, it's flat fee and then you know we know that people are going to have a certain level of need you know on average every month, and that's what we're trying to to serve their make it consistent. So people are afraid you know one of the things that sort of inspired the subscription model was people coming to US six months after a problem had arisen or developed, and by that time now it's expensive. Now, I say you need to go to a litigator and I don't know how much it's GonNa cost because now you've gotten into a conflict, we might have to go to court and realizing that if They had come to me six months earlier then I could have helped them, avoid it completely you know I I look at that like this subscription model that you're talking about kind of like the HSA of the legal world you know the hell spending account because I put money into a spending account every month for my for healthcare that's above and beyond what I might be paying through my insurance company and it's almost like it's free money when I have it in their hey look I put hundred ninety seven bucks in there every month or one, hundred, seventy, five, I have the ability to spend that money. If I need to buy glasses or I need to do anything or to get a prescription in your case it would so great about it and I'm sure that there are some limitations to the legal services that you provide it that

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