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I'm your host Alan Whites and on today's episode. We're GONNA be joined by photographer Sarah Bennett. And Joseph Holmes who coincidentally happened to be a married married couple like our past conversations with Ben Lowy and Marvi Lecarr and with Steven and Betty Wilkes we like to understand how photographic work and photography itself exist within a relationship and what role it has a life of a couple in this case we have a situation in which one member of the couple. Joe has been a longtime photographer dedicated to the craft after many years while his counterpart Sarah is a relative newcomer mostly using photography not as an art even as an end in itself but as a means for advocating caning for awareness and change in the first half of our show. We're GonNa Profile Sarah and Joe's individual work and how they approach photography and after a short break. We're GONNA dive into how photography exists between them. How they have helped and learn from each other and since you're married couple we're going to see if we can get him into a little bit of a fight while here? Sarah Bennett is a former lawyer and a public defender specializing battered women and the wrongly convicted. She brought to bear her camera on the injustices she saw as an attorney and has since produced three series is examining our system of incarceration including life after life in prison the bedroom project and our most recent work looking inside porteous of women serving life sentences sairs work has been exhibited extensively and featured on the PBS Newshour in the New York Times and buzzfeed. All three series are also available billable as books. Joseph homes editorial and final photographer whose work has been exhibited Toronto's contact target festival and new Cities Museum of the moving image. His prints are in the permanent collection of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and sciences the lower east side tenement is in and the Saint Louis Mercantile Library Art Museum Dan Joe is represented by the Jackman Gallery and although his work is not only of New York. Joe Is by definition a new city photographer. Welcome Sarah welcomed Joe. Thanks for having to have you guys here see. I have a question. What was the first time you picked up your camera because you were not originally photography? This is something you grew into from a whole different different pretty much. I mean when I was a teenager I actually took photos and when I when Joe and I met we both had Nikon's and we used to walk around the city and photograph together but you know life sort of intervened. I would say for me. The more Joe got into photography the less. I used my camera so I actually hadn't picked up my camera in in probably a good twenty or twenty five years. Something like that right you know. We both took pictures. We have two kids. We both took pictures of our kids and I don't know I think I just got busy doing something else. Joe Got really into it and I don't like carrying a lot of equipment and it also. She was an attorney's of talking to somebody had to pay the bills.