Was also the host of CNN's Reliable sources. Program joins us to talk about what you uncovered about the evolution and impact of the Trump Fox partnership. But first we're going to get his take on some of today's political news and welcome Brian Stelter. Good to have you with us. Hey, great. Grateful to be here. Thank you so much. I'd like to begin by talking about the article by Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor in chief of Atlantic whom you had on your program on CNN's reliable sources, just on Sunday. And just for some background for listeners who may not know about this. Trump is alleged to have called those who died in World War one losers and suckers. They were buried in a cemetery outside of Paris and supposedly Again. Allegedly. He didn't want to honor the dead for fear his hair would be messed up. Jennifer Griffin of Fox News has backed up the story and confirmed it in the White House is denied it. They've given the title of your book called it a Hoax. And Trump said it never happened, but I want to get to here is Trump wants girlfriend fired, he said. Fox News is gone. This is maybe change the relationship with Fox. First of all your thoughts about that, but also About what Goldberg told you, Which is this is just the tip of the iceberg. I do expect more reporting in the coming days, including quite possibly from Bob Woodward's book. I Hate to start out talking about some other author. But I'll tell you what. There's a lot of anticipation for Woodward's book Rage, which comes out next Tuesday. And I think one of the reasons why Jeffrey Goldberg published his story when he did. Was perhaps because he thinks what word has some similar reporting. So look, we will see we will find out when that book begins to leak, But I think that the Atlantic and other outlets Have Provided Mohr evidence of a pattern of the president, disparaging veterans and disrespecting the military. Some of this is in the president's own words, including yesterday. When he comments on people at the top of the military just wanting to start wars. Making basically calling them or profiteers. No, I think what the president has done by attacking Fox on this story. By saying reported over Griffin should be fired because she was able to corroborate part of Jeffrey Goldberg report. Is that he's working the refs. He doesn't want news on Fox News. He only wants propaganda. So one minute he will attack a reporter at Fox or complain about Anchorage, Fox, and the next minute he will promote Pete Hegseth, Jeannine Pirro. I'll call into Sean Hannity show her fox and friends. It shows that he doesn't want journalism on the air. He wants pro trump opinion in orderto keep his base is solid as a rock. Well, he's going against Ah, much respected reporter here who has had a great deal of praise for her integrity on the fact that matter is Fox kind of threw her under the bus, didn't they? I think Fox did not sufficiently. Promote and tout its own reporting. So once Griffin had corroboration for some of Goldberg's account, she did go on the air once and talk about it. A couple other shows, acknowledged it. But the dominant theme of the coverage was still trumps denials. And I would understand that they'd emphasize the denials. The president was known to be a proud on his truth Teller, someone who never told a lie. But this president has proven that his words are meaningless. By his own actions. He's country to himself all the time and lied to the public constantly about the pandemic and other matters. Soto lead with the president's denial seems faulty to me. Especially when your own reporter from your own outlet. Has backed up some of the reporting. But again, this just shows the tug of war between Fox and inside Fox between news and opinions, and I think it shows that opinions almost always winning. Well, let's talk, though, about what has come out of this controversy, which is the whole validity of unnamed sources. There have been certainly a lot of accusations that many do not corroborate the story. In fact, John Bolton's name has been mentioned on frequent occasions as well as other Trump supporters who claim that he never said what has been alleged here. On yet you have Carl Bernstein. I think on your show, saying with Watergate under Nixon, they were close to 200 sources that were simply a name. So it's the nature of ice floes reporting and journalism to a great extent, sometimes to have on named sources. But Let's get to the heart of it. I mean, this has been certainly stirring around this controversy. It absolutely has. And I think it is great to have a chance to talk about anonymous sourcing because it is so often misunderstood, and reporters don't do enough to explain why and how we rely on anonymous sourcing number one. The source's heir, never anonymous to the reporters and to their bosses. You know, when I'm using anonymous sources for CNN, at least one of my bosses has to know if the story is very sensitive than multiple people are going to know the identity of this person. And we're going to have a conversation about why they're credible and why we're taking their word and why we're publishing it. You know that kind of checks and balances system is what journalism needs. And what the public needs to know happens so they can have more confidence in the reporting. You know, with with regards to the Atlantic, I think We also know a couple of things from Jeffrey Goldberg record number one. He has quoted John Kelly on the record before he's quoted James Mattis on the record before he clearly has journalistic relationships with some of these retired generals. And that's helpful to know if you're wondering who his sources might be for this story.