A highlight from TNW 182: Signal's Facebook Ad Stunt - Epic Games vs. Apple, Signal Ads on Facebook, Google 2FA, Amazon Drivers

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I am one of your hosts sergeant. And i'm the other one jason howell before the show. We were talking about slicing Fruits and vegetables and hopefully not cutting off fingers. Which sounds like. Mike did right before the show. Now you're still attached still there. Yes i have not not lost the whole thing. Just of me just While the rest of us here. And i'm happy for that too. We have a great show planned for you today. Thank you all for tuning in and our first piece is it's an ongoing saga a seeming seemingly never ending story if you will and It's about epic and it's about and it's about an ongoing trial that continues to bring out some more information about these companies Joining us today is read our gotti from the washington post to talk about their coverage of the epic games versus apple trial and What we've learned about how fortnight works and kind of what it wants out of Out of this court case. Welcome to the show read. Thank you for having me. Yes we are happy to have you here. So let's kick things off For for folks who could be tuning in for the first time or kind of out of date on the epic. I is apple trial. Could you explain why this court case exists what What the the two sides kind of hope to gain from going trial and what's going on here. Sure thing i mean. A lot of your viewers probably remember last august when fortnight which epic. I think the most popular video game in the world started offering its users on ios a different way to pay for those micro payments in the game and bypassed. Apple's thirty percent cut apples payment system apple then took for night off the app store and then fortnight immediately sued with a sixty page lawsuit it also came with a big public relations campaign. They had a a movie sort of short film. That compared apple to big brother in one thousand nine hundred four It was called nineteen eighty-four tonight. I think it was ironic. Because you know apple's Famous superbowl commercial which compared ibm to big brother Sort of harken back to that And this lawsuit has been ongoing. There's been discovery over the past year and it went to trial on monday. So we've seen at the ceo. Tim sweeney on the stand. We'll see the other tim. Tim cook Probably toward the end of the trial. And what this case really is about Epic accused apple of being a monopoly of essentially controlling ios Says is an industry unto itself and then abusing its power by forcing app developers to use. Apple's you're both their distribution the app store and their payment processing system. I p purchases on and they say that is a violation of trust law because they are tying to products together which. You're not allowed to do if you're if you're a monopoly. Gotcha yes thank you for that a little bit of a summary it is it is it gets more complex. It seems every single time as we as both sides kind of figure out what thereafter In this case but Epic games of course you know has tried different methods of Of getting what it hopes to get out of this through different means you know in. The united in the eu and and different antitrust can concerns and complaints and It's kind of an approach from all sides and this case has finally kicked off and there are as the washington post on. Peace shows Maybe johnny could pull that up. Just boxes and boxes and boxes of exhibits that are are available for the the case and of course that means that information is getting out there about these different things. we've learned a lot about apple and the argument being made against it But fortnight and epic games itself has a lot of information so Why don't you share to some some of the juicy details if you will about what we've learned regarding epic games due to this this ongoing trial i think yes in in discovery over the past year as these companies both of their gigantic legal teams have just been receiving millions of documents and Parsing through them probably using an army of both. You know software and interns. They pulled out some interesting documents. We've learned about ethics financials In fact they have been losing a lot of money on on their own. App store They're they're willing to. It's it's clear that epic is is willing to lose money to try to break into this market. But i i kinda wanna pull back here and say You know as interesting as it is From the especially for video games via game audience to see ethics financials And some of microsoft well microsoft said yesterday that they are they at the earns them. I think seven or eight hundred million dollars a year Through you know through these in-app purchases It's interesting but it's also not really central to the case at itself. It's it's not. It's not actually very important. Or it shouldn't be in a case that ultimately is about defining the market for us so the big question here is Has nothing to do with epic. It has to do with you. What does iowa is actually compete with. Some people might think. Ios competes with android in the us. There's a they have about a fifty percent. A fifty fifty split google and apple in the smartphone handset market. I'm just in terms of the number of units up but apple is actually saying you know because epochs bringing the suit will be should really be looking at ear is the video game market. So you know. Epic is important. Is video games so you play that on xbox. You play that on playstation They've been trying to kind of narrow the argument there and so the big question is a hot. The judge going to view that Know i tend to think of smart-t smartphone market as as android and ios Is thought to get rid of my iphone. I'm going to buy an xbox instead. I just don't see those as the same thing But i there's there's another question here which is customer walking so even though there's a fifty fifty split if epic can show that customers are really walked into s and that apple does a lot to try to keep those customers locked in to make it very difficult for them to switch over to android. They have a better shot at winning this argument in court that ios is is the market. We should be looking at so. Those are the things that i'm interested in this case But it's not as juicy as right is looking at epochs financials well.

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