Song is done. Hasley hurt by dan ahmadi. And now it's time for our third discussion which we are calling afghanistan and the jewish question here is why the cover story of last week's weekend magazine of the right wing religious zionist paper mkhori. Sean was called quote. The escape from afghanistan twenty years after went in there to fight islamic terror. The united states abandons kabul to the good graces of taliban rule and proves once again that it is dangerous to depend on it and quote. The article caught the eye of writer and public intellectual. Rabbi dr professor. Daniel gorgeous the vice president of shalom college in jerusalem gorgeous wrote on his sub stack that mccurry shown had expressed quote the first israeli takeaway from what just happened in afghanistan. One that you hear everywhere in these parts that more or less goes like this. Everyone should remember that. America has always been america first and always will be of course. There's a strong alliance right now and it will remain good as long as it's good for america. But when it's not like the desperate afghans who climbed into wheel wells to escape the horror of life under the taliban only to plummet to their demise. We will be entirely on our own and quote. Gordon goes on to say that quote the image of these afghans abandoned by the world with nowhere to go no way to get out author reminds us of our selves and quote. What he means is not that long ago just eighty years. Jews were as happiness and hopeless and helpless as afghans hanging on the side of transport planes in hopes of making it to safety. Gorgeous writes quote. We see the afghans. We don't think of jews anymore. But we should because without israel. That's who we might be in quote contemplating afghanis quote. We can see how utterly successful israel has been in transforming the existential condition of the jews and quote. It's worth pointing out that. The greatest response here in israel through the shockingly fast triumph of the in afghanistan with the miseries that everyone expects to follow in the harried bedraggled retreat of the americans and a fraction of their endangered afghani allies has been horror and worry and sadness and heartbroken sympathy for the people of afghanistan in much the same way that this has been the major response in places all around the world but gorgeous is right to i think that for lots of israelis what happened over the past weeks in afghanistan has seemed to hold some sort of lesson for us about how anarchy can swallow place and it's people and about how the happy plans of western governments america's most of all can go off the rails and how international commitments can sublimate as the chemists. Call it turning from a solid to a gas invisible and soon enough gone altogether. The lesson. mkhori. Sean may be daniel gorgeous. And maybe many other israelis learn from the past weeks in afghanistan seems to be. You can't count on american assurances or europe's in the end were on our own and no one will make sure that we survive other than us. This doesn't seem right this conclusion. Though it also doesn't seem one hundred percent utterly wrong. I feel like such a jew as when we were talking about this over the past week a meet. Our researcher said the first problem with what mkhori shown. Daniel gorgeous are saying is that we don't really learn anything at all from what just happened in afghanistan american and other western countries. We're never going to be able to solve afghanistan's problems. America was always going to have to leave sometime and whenever they did it was bound to look like what we've just seen. All countries meet said america included ultimately put themselves. I what is happening in afghanistan is a terrible human tragedy from which we as israelis can learn. Nothing which i guess is our first question. Allison is there something that we as israelis learn from the messy heartbreaking and tragic nature of america's retrieved from afghanistan. And if there is what is it that we might learn. Well i definitely don't think it has to be all or nothing. I mean there's always something right you can learn from another experience without saying ooh this is just like us and we have to learn exactly this lesson behavior in exactly the same or different way or else. This thing is going to happen to us. I mean i. I think you read into it. More than gorgeous actually said said it but if there is an implied comparison of the afghans to the jews in the holocaust. I mean. that's comparing apples to oranges right. Well he was just talking about the powerlessness of them. That there are like these big forces and who are acting and they're powerless to save for israel. Jews were that way and now afghans are that way it doesn't. It's not parallel it's true. Yeah so i mean the. Us israel relationship is nothing like in afghanistan where there was a specific mission to protect america from terrorist threats. Coming from afghanistan. The mission was never to protect afghans from the taliban. Just like going into iraq. You know it was great marketing and great spin. It wasn't to protect them from saddam hussein. So you know when it comes to not directly comparing afghanistan to israel. I think bennett very intentionally pointed it out. You know he was He was kind of pointing to this when he said in his white house. Visit that as i told you mr president israel never has never will ask america to send troops to defend ourselves. That's our job. We will never outsource security. It's our responsibility to take care of our fate. But we do. Thank you for the tools and the back you've been giving us and you're giving us so he was like hey we're not afghanistan But i definitely think on a on a larger philosophical scale. It does affect us. It shows what happened in afghanistan. America turning inward Not pushing as i said in our previous segment towards a palestinian state towards a palestinian settlement So it kind of goes together. Right america not pushing us to do x. because it won't necessarily have our back if that thing Go south and that's again to my point about it being on On us right now. And i think again just one more quote you know biden said it himself. He said this decision about afghanistan is not just about afghanistan. it's about ending an era of major military operations to remake other countries. We saw mission of counter terrorism and afghanistan getting the terrorists and stopping attacks. Morph into a counterinsurgency nation-building trying to create a democratic cohesive and united afghanistan. That's something that has never been done over. Many centuries of afghan history moving on from that mindset and those kind of large scale troop deployments will make us stronger and more effective and safer at home. I think that you know we have to think about that. When we think about on the left in israel how and in what way we can try to think about creating a two state solution such as We can imagine it I think that You know if we're building on that kind of major investment and Commitment from the united states in that picture. I think that biden has given.