Arianna Tobin, IBM, United States discussed on Here & Now
Own labeling of them as competent wasn't any protection. I'm going to also add that. One of your findings was that older older employees who were being laid off and told that their skills were out of date within almost immediately brought back as contract workers for lower pay. That's right and look the other thing had to say about this is there are ways to <hes> change your workforce. They may be a little slower than <hes> mass layoff <hes> but they are fair and <hes> as is my co author arianna tobin said in another context. Here's the thing about age. It happens to all of us and so that the person who's thirty or thirty five and saying hey. That's not me that as you said before. It's not you've now but it is you in ten years or five years so you should be interested in fairness here because it's going to come back to bite you if you're not wouldn't i._b._m. Say about these accusations. They say they're very proud of their record of diversity and inclusion and in fact i._b._m. Has a long history of particularly on rays of being liberal and being progressive. What's amazing about this is is that if you look at it the one thing that's left out his age <hes> and look robin. Can i just say one other thing about this. You could think that i._b._m. Was a one off but one of the other projects we tackled was to ask the question why i._b._m. One off or is this widespread and there's really strong long evidence that ages commission dumping out fifty year old. There's an older <hes> is very widespread in the american labor market today and the companies. Maybe maybe saying it's because they want fresher thinking they want more and more there. They may be saying more technologically adept people but is it. What about money. Yes look critique against older. People goes something like this. We cost more because of healthcare and were cognitively diminished diminished. There's something to the fact of people cost more of because of healthcare by the way so do women in their thirties who are having children and we would wouldn't want policy that says if you get pregnant you get dumped and as for cognitive <hes> diminishment. I just think we're working with very very old. Notions of what cognitive ability is we're leaving something like thirty years longer than we were. Generation are generated two generations ago. Oh and we are leaving healthy for thirty years longer and so the critique is old. This is personal for you. You were laid off a few years back. It was a startup. Just your personal understanding of what happens. Well look. This is personal to me. I was laid off. I'm a single father of twins ends and i was laid off in the very week. They started college and i thought i'd be out for a couple of weeks. A couple of months. I was out fifteen months which did nothing in pretty to our finances. The perspective of being both older and laid off and having kids were twenty two and just starting out in the labor market and facing using a world a decade of internships and one year contract gigs is that you get a perspective of what's happening at both ends of the age age spectrum in this united states labor market and what you're watching the fraying of the employer employee relationship which we've counted on to keep the society together certainly during the postwar period well h- just real brief peter gosling i mean is this a time that has passed. I mean one of the things you right about. Propublica is all the ibm are said to you this we were in for life. This is what we thought but is that a delusion. Now i mean that's just not the way the workforce works anymore. It's not the way the workforce works right now. As a society we have to ask if we wanna have this other other different way of <hes> of working where it is all a transactional. It is all temporary. It's all side hustles and i. I think that the answer is if we really imagined what it would be like to have that kind of world. We wouldn't want that kind of world and we wouldn't afford that..