Jim Jones, JIM, United States discussed on Hysteria 51

Hysteria 51


Pack. His name is pecker back sit near waiting for re-gather. I turn the light on here. Yeah. I didn't. Well, we got other bumper to play. Chris. His competition for space in your hearts here again and Lavan, Chris I'm just here for the socialist paradise. And last, but not least back in the lower forthr- only the second time, but likely already more respected than either of the other two. Oh, I believe it to Mr. Christopher Markham. Thank you very much. And I'm here for the Monkees if you have any for sale. Yeah. Heard the monkeys for sale. Hey, you know, you only have to pay me. Just let me tell you will story thing, I'm running you keep this going. You're gonna you're gonna get another BJ and the bear reference. So last week, we told you about Jim Jones, the monce responsible for this horrific tragedy. We're getting the meat of it. The actual Jonestown the murders the massacre, whatever you wanna call it. We're going to break down. Just what happened how it happened and it's legacies. But first let's start off. I think the best places started some cold hard facts and stats, you know, what kind of tragedy were actually dealing with in case. You're not familiar, and even if you've heard of it, you might not know exactly what went down. So on November eighteenth of nineteen seventy eight the mass murder suicide of members of the California people still call took place at the urging of their leader Jim Jones in that's play spoiler here. But that's what this is all leading to and it happened in the Jonestown agricultural commune in Jonah and the death toll exceeded nine hundred including in this is disgusting. Three hundred people aged seventeen and under many of which were infants or toddlers, and this is the largest mass death suicide in American history. Like, we said in the intro to last week's episode. Before nine eleven was the largest civilian casualty of event, and then after nine eleven second largest, we're going to talk about this these hindsight's twenty twenty but how does averse church group who sit out to build as they said. And they thought they were really doing paradise on earth, a utopian society free of racism and hatred in unleashing fro intents and purposes hell on earth that culminated in one of the greatest crimes that are mind time, we're going to try to answer that I don't know how well we're going to do, but we're going to try, and it is it's a disgusting story. So how does one man I think let's start by going John? How does one man steer so many so far stray I think we need to start with just a cult. And so let's define what a cult. Right. Cult noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Schick we actually went over this in our Heaven's Gate episode. But it's a good refresher. Or? Relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices, regarded by others as strange or sinister finally a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. Sweet. And you know, it's funny. I think the key word there is excessive and you know, of course, that's a that's an objective word. Right. But it is certainly the keyword third. One is the one that fits the most in this whole Jim Jones, and the Jonestown story one that fits in most colts. Exactly, exactly. So I tried to say this last time. I don't know how if I got my point across how eloquent you're no one sits out to join a cult. I hope you might start out to try to build one. But no one sits join one. But some of us do have plans to build them with so many find themselves in one and Jonestown of the people simply will it was no different. These people found themselves in a Colt. Do you think they knew it at least towards the end, or do you think the reply I think some of them, of course, knew it? And I think they. They fell for this guy for his quote authenticity. And and saying what's on his mind. But also the 'cause that's that the 'cause I think there's so many of them that knew what Jim was doing was wrong knew that Jim is probably bad person yet the cause was what they really cared about. And they saw Jim as person that was going to make that happen or they were truly just frightened. You know, mama. Don't like tattle. He got out people along that line stitches, right alum at one of questioning, I I'm always curious to hear you guys feedback on this of like one of the things that strikes me as unusual with the Jim Jones story is typically when you think of some sort of whether it's an old religious group, a, quote, unquote, Kalt, whatever or even just a bad person doing bad things, you think of recently, you know, like something like the Jerry Sandusky situation in recent years or even on a larger scale in older skill. You think? Of Scientology most people don't look at that and say, Jerry Sandusky acted alone. And there was no one involved could enable him we all know like lots of people are in prison because of that or you look at Scientology like no one says, everyone is following the deceased leader L Ron Hubbard. There's this group of people that sort of run things I never hear or read or see anything about that. With Jim Jones. It's sort of like there's him, and there's the followers. Do you guys know of any evidence was there sort of an ill? Yes. Greer was absolutely Ebeling the called the planning commission and at first planet commission was a small number. But a group about one hundred at one point, and it became if you were part of the planning commission, you are part of the chosen group, it became a kind of a higher class a caste system within the temple and those planet commission members were able to mete out punishments and do gyms benefit especially when he got really bad with drugs. Then most some of those people really came. Before and later on when we're at Jonestown, we can talk more about Rick Sarasin and Carolyn Layton and more. Now, I don't know if this is true of every member of the planning commission, but certainly a lot of them being the planning commission was kind of like being chief of staff at the White House. You're not going to be there. The whole time the leaders there like e burn out and a lot of the planet commission did a lot of them eventually left and turned and turned on Jones. And we're one of the reasons that eventually the congressman congressman Ryan win to Jonestown because of some of the information that the former plan commission members and relatives, right? So so is the thought that some of them ended up becoming so ensconced in it that they are equally culpable to him. Or is the thought that no they were the blind Lou. Well, I think that if I may sorry, I think the thought is they got a taste of the same. Same sort of power. And they saw through Jim as his faculties are diminishing because of the drugs they could start to step up and take the place of some of that power. Right. The thing about it is we're looking at these people. How do you follow a Munster? How do these people that are these planning commission? How do you follow? These people will the temple was very active in humanitarian causes in its community in a time of prejudice. And hate it was a welcome escape a very, welcome escape and escape was the actual plan of intially. And when I mean that is for over three years Jones and all the people worked with the iana government to create Jonestown. And so in the fall of seventy three after this critical newspaper articles by Lester consulting, and the defection of eight timbale members Jones and the temple attorney, Tim stone prepared an immediate action content. Agency plan for responding to a police are media crackdown. He knew it was coming at one point. They were going to have something put down. So the plan listed varies options. We we talked about, you know, they were they were looking at places in Brazil included, maybe fleeing the candidate or the Caribbean. Missionary post they looked at Barbados Trinidad places like that. They actually quickly chose Ganda a lot of it had to do with his extradition treaties with the US. So he knew it was a place that he was going to be able to stay meaning the US could not demand him back. Right. It was also one of the few countries in South America. That was all ready socialist. Yes. Yeah. They embraced it in Georgetown, the capital Russia had their own consulate there. It was very much. It was a very pro communist in socialist place. So by October Seventy-three, the directors of the temple Jones in his in his cronies pass a resolution to establish an agricultural mission there. Why guillano well? We kind of said that because its own soul spouted, whose they were moving further left during the selection process, but former temple member Tim Carter who plays into a lot of these stories about Tim Carter was a key figure in some people questioned a lot of the things he says, but you know, he comes forward with a lot say that reasons for choosing the temple views of perceived dominance of racism and multinational corporations in the US government. They wanna get away Carter said the temple concluded the Jonah, an English speaking socialist country with a predominantly indigenous population and with a government, including prominent black leaders would afford black tipple members, a peaceful place to live a paper. That's great English. Viki is is key as well. Let's be honest, not a very powerful government. So you you have to know that they perceived that and knew that they could kind of get away with what they wanted as long as there is some money degree some poems. When you see that when you are. A person who likes to take advantage of situations as Jim Jones has proven to be obviously Gannon's gonna look attractive. So he kept injecting himself into politics everywhere. He wasn't a politician, but he got behind these politicians with and also there were times when he would send temple members to forge relationships like romantic relationships with the government. I didn't know that was the name for they they had a name women that provide like literally were there to provide these services Ma what's the? The children got the same thing. And they were floor flirty. Fishers was children of God. Yes. Yeah. He uses. Yes. He looked Yana. He saw it as small poor in independent enough for him to easily obtain influence and official protection, which he got from the prime minister because they aligned in their views. And it's something he in their pocket books. Usage is typically the prime minister that one of the women like was specifically assigned to him. And this is what kind of differentiates him from a lot of other cult leaders is he enjoyed public support, and he had contact with some of the highest level politicians the United States, especially when he's in San Francisco, we talked about he was with Rosalyn Carter in the mayor's in on nail government. Since you know, he was probably the most powerful person in the history of America. Walter mondale. Yeah. So in seventy four Jones and the temple negotiated lease of over thirty eight hundred acres of land in the jungle it's about fifty miles west of the capital of Georgia house also northwest really bringing down the dumb choice. It was such a it's isolated it had terrible soil. So it couldn't really grow much the nearest body of water was seven fuck and miles or eleven kilometers away on mud roads and keep things. Interesting. Jonestown location wasn't too far from the Guineas disputed border with Venezuela. And the actual one of the reasons prime minister was yet take this is thought if he put an American presence in American citizens there, it might deter military incursion that they thought was coming at anytime Joe crossed on that. What year was it that we is collective humanity decided that it might be smarter to build our encampments are our cities. Are living quarters close to water. I can tell you

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