China, Robert Muller Robert Muller, United States discussed on Stay Tuned with Preet


I'm seeing it. So in my in my practice now helping companies who are victim of cyber attacks. I'm seeing an increase in ransomware in particular. So these are schemes that. encrypt they lock up your computers you can't use them unless you pay the bad guy, a fee and the bad guys have realized is that in an age of Covid people are GonNa pay because even a minor disruption in no matter what businesses on everyone's working from home right now and dependent on being able to use their networks in system. Making and again. Going back to earlier example, those are group's who you can pay by enlarge because what they're trying to do is to make a buck but if you think about that type of vulnerability on scale, if someone really wanted to deliver a shock to the American economy at a time, we're already dealing with a lot of shocks. You see that with the prevalence ransomware attacks have bad guide locked up the systems and there's no amount that you could pay can really cause damage the I'm GonNa talk about your background a little bit. You've had a lot of different jobs dislike Lisa Monaco and Ken Wayne but I want ask you your your interest in and focus on cyber how that evolved overtime. So. How. Much different is your view? And your attention to cyber comparatively between the time you serve, for example, as Chief of staff to Robert Muller than FBI. Director. And say your last year in government in the Obama Administration. Yeah. So so prior to serving a muller as chief of staff when he was. Back in the good old days when he was relatively anonymous director of the FBI. I had coordinated nationally the computer hacking intellectual property criminal cases. So, I become a Summer of specialists in this area in when I win. Chips. Chips. He's responsible for that name think utility before because he you know he doesn't watch TV had no idea that they were a bunch of responsible Robert Muller Robert Muller yet store when he was the US attorney. In California, he started the first chips unit there to deal with high tech crime, they named the computer hacking and intellectual property section. It was just a section in that one. US Attorney's office, and then he brought the name with him when he came back. The name. Yeah we'll you know about the. Sunglasses. TV Show Yeah. Reminded many of our listeners don't know what the hell you're talking about you. Chips tortilla chips. Credit. Just. California highway patrol big being camps with this show. Yeah. Look I I know you watch religiously. I watched the show. I wasn't allowed to watch TV, but it was one of the shows I snuck and they just did a remake that was is really a terrible movie. I got to say but it. So maybe it's more people hurt because of the remake no negative we don't do negative. Negative promotions. Here. So, yeah so much between then and and recently. How much bigger of a deal has become I think what it is. It's a lot of what we foretold has now come. Come to pass. So for a while, you know everyone was. Saying it's a matter of time before nation state attack seat the United States through cyber means. Now we've had things like the North Korean attack on Sony motion pictures going back to your don't give negative views because they they're essentially giving a negative review to a movie didn't like the interview you've had Russia. We talked about the fact that there was the possibility of Medellin election but now we've seen it happen and on scale and not just once we saw them attempt to do the same thing in. The two thousand eighteen election's, and we know they're trying to do it again, we've seen China steal intellectual property on scope and scale that simply unimagined in history that former director of the National Security Agency. Called the largest transfer of wealth in human history Keith Alexander I think he's right and we've seen that affect the world's geopolitics. So I think what we're seeing a lot of what had been predicted has already come true and unfortunately since then there has been increased investment in security new positions created new. The government has changed in new policies. But at the same time, we've also doubled down on increasing our reliance on the technology without fixing the underlying vulnerabilities. So I'm not sure we were more safe than we were before. You know that that quote from Alexander is also invoke regularly when I was in office the greatest transfer. Of Wealth and human history but a lot a lot of that wealth. Is being transferred wear to China right based on theft property. So I WANNA ask you about China for a second I was recently. Talking to some folks who said something that made my hair stand on end and it was. The question of what is going to happen with the relationship between the United States and China and how big a threat China is much more so than Russia. And the question was are we inevitably headed towards? Armed Conflict with China military conflict with China and the consensus was no not in the conventional sense that seems unlikely. But if you're including cyber and whatever cyber means they thought, there was a very high likelihood that inevitability do that, and what would that look like I agree with it but I do think it's something that's that we can positively impact in. It's a good reason to to talk about now in so. It's in part of that is I think China in the US have a vested interest in having some norms some rules of the road on how you use these weapons that are incredibly powerful. And in order to set those rules of the road, you need to create clear norms like things that are okay and are not what are the red lines make sure that there's not confusion and then make sure that your deterrence is credible. So with China right now has great capability to disrupt inside the US and we have a great ability to disrupt their systems. As well, I think what? What's keeping it more in the in the realm of espionage and? Trade secret theft rather than actually disrupting systems that we rely on. Is Deterrence understanding of where red lines one of the concerted efforts you saw the Obama Administration that I think has fallen off somewhat not because they're great cases being brought by the law enforcement and intelligence professionals, but there hasn't been consistency at the top. In terms of the messaging to China on what's most important. But one of the changes you saw the attempt to make administration is to say, Hey, trade secret theft when you're targeting private companies were putting as as a norm where saying that is one of our our red lines that he can't use your cyber capability. Instead of you don't investing in research and development to steal intellectual property, and then we did see a change of behavior when that breakthrough occurred with President Obama in president she was it was somewhat remarkable I. Think we've fallen off a little bit because it's so conflicted with all the other us. China trade issues that there's not a clear message on you know what's different from trade in really a national security issue putting China side. Would have some other countries that you think are dangerous in the sphere that you'll be talking about on the pod yet top four are China. We've talked about Russia north, Korea and Iran, and that's been fairly consistent in terms of the assessment of the intelligence community for nearly a decade now. I discussed this once at a panel. where I think I was moderating. and..

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