Donald Trump, FOX, Alex Jones discussed on Words Matter
Eventually the <hes> the terror axa. We've seen yes so whenever media organizations <hes> take a strong stance against certain issues and start raising the rhetoric on these types of issues. You're always risking pushing those on the outer fringes ges <hes> who are on the brink of acting off the edge to the point where they conduct acts of violence so words do matter <hes> from our politicians from the media <hes> and then you have even more extreme <hes> forms of media like alex jones info wars and shortwave radio programs that get people spun spun up and more agitated with the rhetoric and the tone that they take. It's one thing to watch fox news and if you're wack may bang my head against the wall and say it's making people crazy but it sounds like you're saying that this actually does help mobilise these groups and mobilize them in a way that they take action. Yes so we saw <hes> <hes> couple of incidents in the past year. Two were extremists were mobilized into taking a stand against a government. I'm referring to the bundy ranch standoff off and bunkerville nevada as well as the mao here wildlife refuge takeover the way the media conservative media kind of handled that as they try to talk about these people people being patriotic and doing the right thing and taking a stand against the government but in reality you're emboldened these people by reporting the news in that way <hes> these people all pointed guns at federal law enforcement officers <hes> they took over a federal facility for over a month destroyed some of the federal facility so rather rather than painting these groups as patriotic and standing up to the government. They need to be called out for what they are. They're radicals their extreme <hes> some of them turn into terrorist. I <hes> these ideologies <hes> that these groups belong to <hes> make calls for violence and provide the targets for these radicals to go after one of of the more interesting things in reading your work is the difficulty in combating domestic terrorism is not the traditional terrorist cells that can be disrupted upped but you know what you call the lone wolf problem. Can you talk a little bit about that. Yes so back in the eighties. These terrorist groups here in america were successfully infiltrated by law enforcement and a lot of their activities in groups were disrupted and people arrested <hes> so in lieu of that <hes> <hes> the domestic extremists have adopted this leaderless resistance strategy. It's actually based on an essay written by prominent white supremacists who was a vietnam veteran taran who studied the art of warfare wrote the essay called leaderless resistance which calls for people to self train to identify targets gets within your community not to talk about what your plans are not affiliate with groups because there's the risk of informants and agent provocateurs tour's within the groups themselves and so you operate and stealth in secret and you secretly plan and plot and prepare for your attack <hes> so this as you can imagine poses a unique problem for law enforcement because it's very difficult to identify and prevent these people from in carrying out their attacks on the other hand <hes> because you don't have a professional training camp or some professional bombmaker teaching the bombmaking skills a lot a lot of these terrorists capabilities are less sophisticated so you don't get the sensational type of tax that you would see from an isis or al qaeda cell so that's it's kind of how they operate. Those are the tactics that they use. They do it deliberately so that they could avoid law enforcement detection so it's clear from the way your report was buried and your your congressional testimony in the lack of action <hes> that we're not doing enough if we made you king for a day <hes> what do we need to do. What what steps does our government government needs to take. I take this threat seriously and then to combat it. There's so much that we can be doing. We're so far behind the curve <hes> trying to catch up with this threat. That's had ten years to grow and into fester <hes> it all starts with recognizing <hes> these acts of violence as terrorism and with that comes the ability to start tracking it and gathering statistics and then you can gauge whether it's growing or whether it's <hes> decreasing and at that point <hes> if you decide that it's increasing and getting worse we can devote resources and money towards the problem <hes> as far as where route focused. My efforts is going to be multifaceted from the federal level you need more agents and analysts devoted to investigating and assessing this threat <hes> <hes> are countering violent extremism program that we have in place currently is exclusively focused on countering radical islamic extremists <hes> that program needs to be the expanded to have an equal balance between both non-islamic and islamic extremists <hes> training these to be improved and increased for for our state and local law enforcement officers analysts that are on the front lines of dealing with these extremist groups from the community level. <hes> people need to get involved. <hes> <hes> they've got friends family members or relatives that are embracing these extremist beliefs <hes> rather than isolate them and ostracize them. We need to embrace race these people and bring them back into the mainstream society and give them a cause to live four politely challenge and humorously challenged some of these extremist beliefs jason you know try to rationally explain how their poisonous to the mind in that there is something that <hes> is not welcome in today's modern society so there's a lot the things we could do. It's got to be a top down approach as well as a bottom up approach so we're in reading your report from two thousand you anticipated the election of a republican publican donald trump in two thousand sixteen to tamp down a right wing extremism of it's not quite what happened known we can. Thank the heated political. Go rhetoric of the two thousand sixteen campaign for the continued rise in heightened activity of these groups <hes> this current administration needs to understand and that when you mainstream extremist ideas such as building border walls in banning muslims to travel the united states and mass deportation of immigrants grunts these were extremist ideas that i read about ten or fifteen years ago on white nationalist websites <hes> now they're being endorsed as policy by administration astray shen also retweeting messages from conspiracy sites about muslims an extremist sites again. It's giving a green light to these extremists is that they have somebody in the presidency that tacitly supports their belief system and their movements and turning a blind eye to what they're doing and and so they're looking at that as a license to misbehave and to conduct acts of violence when i was reading your report and you talked about the root causes beyond beyond just hatred of change patriot of african americans and you started digging into economic anxiety to <hes> immigration anti free trade agreements to me read like the trump campaign seemed to be built <hes> and the foundation of it was this white nationalist this philosophy that you had studied in the nineties and through two thousand twelve at least yeah definitely catered to the extremist message and created a support base you recently told a columnist for the new york times that <hes> what surprised you with trump <hes> or with a republican winning was it it increased and you talked about what trump has done is added fuel to the fire. How's he done that. He does that through <hes> demonizing using and dehumanizing his opponents. Whether it's the democrats <hes> whether it's the media calling it fake news weather. It's immigrants coming into the country calling them invaders or an invasion likening people to rodents calling third world countries crap whole countries. This is all the tone in rhetoric of bigotry and hatred <hes> kinda stirs up the radicals <hes> to the point where they start looking at these people as targets you said mainstreaming ideas i think about it <hes> along the same lines as normalizing <hes> right wing extremist views <hes> and giving a green light to domestic terrorists to move ahead where they didn't feel like they had that before i i think of it from a political point of view but you have the expertise. Do you think that president trump has normalized this behavior and has that been a trigger for for some of these domestic attacks. Yes he's allowed this environment to persist as well as become more pervasive when he uses that rhetoric that i've talked about <hes> when we had charlottesville and other attacks he tries to minimize the threat he tries to s- <hes> say that the far or left and the far-right pose an equal thread or try to say that there's good people in these rallies and protests again. These are all things that it kind of <hes> emboldened these extremists and give them a permissive environment to operate. I wanna read something that you wrote in your congressional testimony in two thousand in twelve <hes> and then just pose a question to you you wrote i often describe extremist ideology and by law enforcement training as a.