Will Sudan's Transition to Democracy Succeed?
Welcome to background briefing. Steve out. Thanks very much. And there was a massacre of the pro democracy. Protesters in Sudan's, capital, Khartoum. The capital is effectively locked down by the Jonjo. We'd militia is lead a committee appears to be the power behind. And the scenes here and trying to turn back the aspirations of the people who managed to oust the long time dictator Bashir, but it does appear that their chances of succeeding against the kind of brutality that the judge away to famous four particularly in the massacres I that they conducted enough or with the Saudi Arabians with CNA chipped. And with the Maradas backing the military and the judge. Wade, what's your sense, whether people power can prevail? I I've been terribly impressed in in moved over six months, so power people power, and I guess we have to say it isn't inexhaustible. They've particularly in the this, so called Muslim generals and dictators, so forth, have really desecrated the holy month of Ramadan for the population by killing people. And now making a complete farce of the, the, the holiday at the end of of fasting month. I really think they'll stop at nothing to continue with this can only call an another cool and Dan, and that they don't have much of an intention to turnover power. And particularly when they say that they wouldn't have elections and nine months. That's that's ridiculous. Really giving what they've they linked. They've gone so far to make sure elections wouldn't take place. In twenty twenty in the first place, and now to imagine there's staging elections and nine months is kind of beyond belief. Well, what I find beyond belief is that this relationship between President Trump and his son in law, Jared Kushner with MBC in the Emirates, and m BS, the Saudi Crown prince, in many ways, it was set up by this character. George Neda has just been arrested in at JFK airport on charges of having child pornography. He's a cake guy and setting up that relationship, and that seems to be at the heart of it. We have a president Scholley in Donald Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who just simply don't care about the brutality of these people that they so unswervingly support. I mean, if you can still support Ben Salman off to the murder okay? Shoghi then you pretty shameless. Scholley. Oh my goodness. Yes. That, that without question. Yeah. So what can be done. The people in the US government show to the White House that can make some kind of stand for democracy. I guess the signs do point to the lower echelons, including the assistant secretary of state for making some pretty strong statements, and, and courage ING, or really condemning the military crackdown in the death of the protesters, and so forth. But I guess I wouldn't be surprised about the next step was to try to get in some sort of particularly African Union force to supervise some sort of oversight of, of peace talks of some nature. It's hard to imagine what they look like at this point. But that seems to be the usual pattern that the, the African Union is called into to Elise oversee these things if not bring. To some successful conclusion anyway, the next step. And again, I'm speaking with state. How is a professor says director for graduate studies at the high University School of media knots studies a sociologist, by training is work focuses on social change in Africa and social movements in the Muslim world, a just recently returned from sedan where he was visiting professor at the university for women. He's the author sedan scenes from youthful uprising and he's forthcoming book as we have mood on the path of the prophet and unsettled times. But at this point, you've got the John, Joey militia locking down the capital cartoon killing people indiscriminately and they pay to be doing. So at the behest of the military council, led by general relative Burhan. So once these guys back in the saddle and prepared to be that ruthless. Then not lucky to invite the African Union INA. They. No. Although they do have all kinds of amazing global connections in that they were brought to life after the four prices by the European Union, believe it or not, which gave to Dan, all kinds of money to make sure that migrants wouldn't cross through Sudan, into Egypt into the onto the Mediterranean in Europe. And, and the again, government gave all that money to strengthen the Jeonju, we then rename them as this rapid, deployment for to protect sue do monitor the borders, while these are the people who are now murdering protesters and compliments of the European Union. So what do you know about the John Wayne leader, heavy? I mean, how much does the military council control him? Well, you know. It's a, it's a very interesting issue, because of I'll be curious to see how it get because of really kind of rampant Sudanese racism that the people control the country, every administration, whether military or civilian since independence, have been people from the Nile valley, people from north of Kotome or itself, and vodka of someone from the four or being coming. Head of the government is, it's really hard to imagine given the way that people from the central part of the country look down on, on the Dr four people, and of course, the, the south side as well. Right. It's this is a rice between. What would you say between African looking people and Arab looking people? Is that is that the dot? Katameya and I'd say when you say Africa looking are looking, I think, for the most part from the outside perspective, it's hard to tell the difference among among the Sudanese, but it but they know who comes from where, and there that the, the central Sudanese, I, I love them dearly, but they're, they're kind of remarkable races to about the, the marginalized ethnic groups outside of the central part of the country. So they and they and they've marginalize them in terms of education, and social stature, and so horse. So they have much chance to rise up in this society through the military and is considered one of these dock skinned people. Right. I see that might limit is political horizons. What about that? As soon as professional association. That's been spearheading these protests. Do you think that simply that's going to be decimated, by the, by the Jonjo Wade, or do they have what kind of international today have I it's, it's strictly lip service to the to the to the greatest extent. I mean dot getting financial bagging. But they're certainly noble. Well, trained educated that gated peace loving good Muslim people, but without any arms at their disposal. And then, you know and they dot gonna take up arms. That's not their intention. And so, I think my guess is that they would just sort of fade into the background and, and another frustrated sort of, you know, giving up on democracy for now, kind of thing if. If things get more violent that would be my estimate. Well, is there any way to shame the Saudis agency and the Maradas who without their support this? Of course, if the US would would ravers rattle some sabres and, and make some noise about this and condemn what they all are up to. But, you know that's not gonna happen with the Trump governments. They're, they're very cozy with the leader of the Emirates and, and with these e and with, and the S and so forth, so that, that I can't see that happening. That would be astonishing and very significant but doesn't seem like we're going to intervene in that way. Unless I must we get some further public uproar in this country about it. And so I appreciate your talking about well just in closing then. These reactionary leaders liked CC, NBS NBC manage to roll back the clock in Egypt's, 'cause flirtation with the Arab spring, and in general, and if they succeed in, in Sudan. Crushing the democratic aspirations of Sudanese people. It doesn't say much for that raisins hopes for now democracy, doesn't even though you know, political Islam is being promoted by the Qataris seems to be alive, but not able to stand up to this reactionary SUNY kings and military generals, Lexi, right? I mean, the whole world is becoming very Trump like and it needs to end. So. State. How I think very much for joining us. Oh my pleasure. Thanks for calling me. And again, I'm speaking with Steve, how is professor and director for graduate studies at the high University School of media arts and studies associates by training. His work focuses on social change in Africa and social movements in the Muslim world. He just recently returned from Sudan where he was visiting professor at the university for women, and he's the author sedan scenes from youthful uprising and he's forthcoming book, as we have my mood on the path of the prophet in unsettled