From Glassblower to Software Developer using Free Coding Resources with Michael Pimentel


And we're back in today's episode. I speak with Michael, Pimentel. Michael Story is fascinating worked in the glassblowing industry specifically for film sets for nine years before he started teaching himself how to Code. And what makes him even more? Interesting is the fact that he doesn't have a college degree. Anti never went to a coding bootcamp. He is entirely self-taught. and. That is exactly what we're GONNA be talking about today. How he taught himself to code. WOW, working fulltime. How guys first job in tack and how he got more roles in the tech industry as time went on. If you tips for staying motivated while learning how to Code. This episode is for you enjoy. Hey. Michael. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. It will on six February I'm real excited to talk with you. You have like interesting. Self taught experience in. That's what I would like to dive into I. Could you share with us how you got started in software engineering? Absolutely so kind of Story kind of goes back to a few years ago when I was working for a company that made life for the film industry now working there as a manufacturer glassblowing really interesting work. Kind of working in a manufacturing type of shop warehouse, loud, working on a lay, that spun in a really hot environment I was there for a really long time and things just. Kinda didn't progress in terms of career. Wise and financially it was just really typical I live in California and California being one of the most expensive place live. It just wasn't sustainable. married and I have a child and that it just wasn't something that I could maintain so it kind of motivated me to start thinking I need to. Probably either go back to school or another another route career choice so i. can you know build to support and have a career that can provide general finance, support and everything like that, so it kind of led me to back to. My interest in computers and everything like that, so I started to do some online, searching and everything like that and it. Brought me to software development coding, you know some booming career choice that is really big right now and everything like that was like okay. Maybe I should go back to school for that, but at the time it really wasn't the best option I went acted. As a couple of glasses time, that's what I could afford at my community college, and then just got really difficult to maintain a full-time job and take one or two classes, and it got really expensive, because my wife was what was going to school in college and everything like that, so it was really difficult for us to support both less going especially you know. Not really knowing what I wanted to do. So I I did a lot of searching and I came across recode camp and recode camp. You know like when you get on their landing page. It's like learning one to code for free and always people learn this way and I was like wait three. This isn't make sense. This will usually scams off there. Start off Rian. Then you have to pay something and everything like that and you know to my surprise actually was free, and then so I started I jumped right in, and just started to go to the curriculum, and it sparked my interest and I was like. Wow, this is really cool. It's it kind of. Goes about in a way that. Gets you interested really quickly? You know with hd Mounsey assassin how you can get feedback on the webpage really quickly. Let's kind of how it started because I. Just I just couldn't go. That route was a canoe into school because it was just really expensive and I already had like a car loan, I couldn't get like student loan. It was just wasn't really practical. It's like cave. Do put myself some really extreme debt that I don't know if it's GonNa lead to something. That's GONNA pay in the end so I had to find another option and looked like learning to code on my own free resources when that resource beginning with recode camp was was the route I took. Awesome so I, want to backtrack a little bit to your. Your work before you got into coding, so you you okay? You said he was a manufacturing role. I haven't made notes that you were a glass blower which anti note that is for movies today shows. Definitely. What is it glasses? Sure okay, so a glass blower, typically like of someone like Google glass large usually someone that takes some raw material which consists of the materials, t make glass essentially depending on what what the? The. End Product is going to be different types of glass. Of course so basically you take them in you hit Heaton furnace, or with a really hot torture claim so that it becomes like in this malleable state, and then you shape it essentially so what I did there? We work on a leave, and we basically built like the light bulb globe. It's spun on a lathe and then you would really. Really hot with a hydrogen oxygen burners, two thousand degrees, and then you shape it based on certain dimensions so basically they would take that, and then we'd have a filament type that would basically you know, have some kind of chemical reaction than light up base off whatever the the fixture needed you know for the filming, so the specific light that they made there was an Hmo which is like a chemical. Name that I really don't know all the details into it, but it basically replicates the color of the sun so like if you see like on film sets, use those lights that kind of are the background that make everything look real, daytime and night-time filming. Those are the lights that we made when I worked there we're one of the few American companies still made them like with our hands, still as opposed to a machine meaning making them in a in a warehouse somewhere. But in a sense, essentially, that's what it was. We were just making them with a glassblowing. That's what I did while working there while I think nine or ten years. We Really, oh my goodness. Wow so start I'm surprised. It was that long because for people. Listening to this show were actually speaking through video so I can see you so I'm like. Wow doesn't look like he can hold a John. Young so young to have a job for that long. Then start another career. Okay? Wow, that awful. How did you get into that? Because that feels very niche, you're essentially making bulldogs. That camera crews in production crews are using on the sets of TV shows I mean. We were chatting before we recorded you live in California. I know like the entertainment industry is. In the movie industry in all of that is obviously very prominent out there is that kind of how that happened or It's interesting so actually the reason why I got into it is because my dad worked in that industry or like thirty years, and I had come out of working at John Juice and I was their. First job actually was working as a team member workup to insistent manager, and then eventually needed to make more money, because I got married at a really young so I. My dad ended up helping me getting the job there and you know I just ended up staying there for a really long time, but it's really how I got into. It was as my dad was in that industry longtime. He had connections and everything like that. Dot It. Did you go to a trade school or anything for glassblowing? No I actually just learned on the job. And still to this day is one of the most difficult things that I've ever done. Physically I for almost anything that can compare it to I think. Programming is its own challenge, but is like the hardest physical. Thing I've ever had to learn because it was like. If you don't do it right the first time, then you ruin it. So there's no going back and fixing it once. You kind of ruin it because the glass that we would work with you'd have to mix it with metals, and then once it's kind of melted to a certain point, you can't go back in extract those materials out of the glass, so it's Kinda ruined. If you don't do it, right is probably there really nerve, wracking or when I did that job. Yeah Wow, it also sounds like it could be dangerous if you're working as really like high temperatures. Absolutely I got burned really bad third degree burns I have degree burns like all my arm from it, but yeah, it was. It's definitely. Was I'm just curious. Did that have any role in your decision to look for a new job like I? Know you mentioned like the financial side, but were there other things, too? Yeah absolutely a that part being okay, so the big part, actually a aside from like the financial reasons that it just didn't pay that much. It was the work environments. It is in the Central Valley of California which in the summertime gets you know triple digits consistently and the warehouse that it is done is basically like a garage. It doesn't have an air condition. It doesn't have any of those things so the environment itself was. was just really really taxing. There's been a couple of times when I had gotten heat exhaustion, I got sent home because of it because like say it's one hundred, three, hundred ten, even outside inside that shop where you'd be working is a hundred twenty one hundred thirty degrees, and it was just unbearable is the if you've our to look back on some old twitter posts? I probably have pictures of like a thermometer in the area. And it's just like maxed out because it was just so hot, but yeah, that's that's probably WANNA be. A motivating factors to wanting to look for another job. It got to point where I was like. I need to get out of here. No matter what this job is just killing me physically, and you know a lot of other reasons you can imagine in an environment like that the people that you tend to work around kind of like really. Not The best work environment because you know on a lot of stress and you know tend not to get along very well when they're under a lot of stress is mentally and just everything that came along with that job, so it just became kind of like a hostile work environment as well so it was like a lot of. Factors that Kinda came into me like I have to get out of here you to find something else you know. Yeah well I mean that definitely makes sense. There's a few other people or one that is coming to mind that. We had on the show in a previous season. Whose name is Josh Camp? And he was a hope I. Stay this right a horse I think it's a horse fairer fairer, hope, number news right, but he would change the hooves on horses, which could also be really dangerous. Obviously, a horse kicks you and I believe it was an injury that ultimately led him to. You know look for other work in in what will link to that in the show notes for people listening now 'cause it. Was You know a few years back when we had on the show and any other episode, I believe it could have had a few where there was someone with a moron. Sick physically dangerous or physically labor job, and that's kind of what led them to to make a pretty big pivot because I can like working for you as a glass blower in those in that environment, physical Super Super Hot. It's totally different from working as a software engineer. And when you started coding, you mentioned using Free Co camp in other free resources. Were you still working fulltime as the glass blower and you are learning outside of that? Yes I was so I would I had a fulltime job there, and because of the heat I would work really really early hours I try to go in his earliest possible as three in the morning. Get off at noon or whatever it was Leonard Twelve so that time that I would get off of course I'd already so exhausted. Matt jobs so I have to go home and sleep a little bit and then. The thing with those interesting with that is. It was hard for me to be going having a fulltime job like that. Maybe some people can relate to that. You know like a maybe just a fulltime job in general is exhausting, but this job probably pushed it because of the environment itself the hostility behind it. That kind of gave me more motivation to be like you know what I'm really tired right now. And I'm not really motivated to to learn coding complete, foreign and difficult, but when I get off work the way I did time, so you know wanting to leave that place so bad that it was just that extra boost motivation for me to learn and study and just do everything I needed to do to succeed in it on just because it was just so bad. I got desperate. Really desperate I just remember that I tend to forget that, but then when I do remember I'm like wow, it helps me to be like really grateful. You know to where I am now, and it was really hard working fulltime job in learning, because I did learn while working there probably about a year and a half, maybe almost two years I was learning. And There was there were times when I would make huge progresses, but then. At the same time thinking like is this really possible? How do people get a job doing? It's like yeah. I can build a website, but there's more to it you like. Is this all I need to get a job type thing you know But Yeah! It was it was hard and I. Don't want to say like Oh yeah. It's super easy because it. Wasn't especially having to work fulltime job in it's all I could just you know. Take days off now and everything like that. I had to work. But yeah. It was difficult. So you were. Doing ice, you said for like one and a half two years where you were doing boom things at the same time. appleaday mentioned this earlier, but you. Free Co camp. Did you use any other resources or you mentioned Community College? Were you taking classes there? Yeah so additional to recode camp so the there's a lot of other things that I did that helped me so free code camp opened up at the time. I haven't camp while, but at the time had lake. Away that you would join and beat up and it was through facebook. It was like face, looking need groups or something, and it was like find a recode camp. Meet up because I. Guess they had like an umbrella. Recode camp meet ups that you can join, and you would basically type in your city in order find the nearest one that was that was organized and everything like that, so I found one in my city and it was you know a few people apartment that would meet up in so I joined that group and I reached out on their. Pre Cochem does a really good job with trying to connect people, so it's like hey, introduce yourself in post on there, so that people can no, no your journey Cetera so i. did that and I ended up meeting up with the organizers of that? Meet Up. We met at starbucks talked about you know everything on learning this and that where you and Rico camped up thing so eventually, I got more involved in that met more people that were learning as well and then now it. Kinda led to Terry member Oh the Mita. Dot Com meet up. There was also the recode. KEMP MEDIA DOT COM for our area that was attached to that facebook group. And, he was like yeah. I just started this. Meet up group, so we can kind of be more broad for people that don't have facebook. We can just Kinda grow up there and he was like you WanNa, help me with that because you know. He was maintaining full job as well, and he needed someone to Kinda. Fill in that gap where he couldn't. You know sounds like yeah. Sure I could definitely help with that, so I helped him. kind of on the organization's portion of that. meet up and like. Hey, let's try to meet. Kind of swap the weeks you know will be on a Saturday one week and then. I'll take the next every type of thing we'd be out of starbucks. And then someone posted on the meet up of feed. Like hey does a hack upon coming up, you guys should come reach out and you know I think it was free, and it was in our area, so I went to the hacker thon and myself in a couple of other people that were in that group, and then we ended up a or ended meeting a few other people at that meet up. That were real professional programmers. At the thoughts I introduced myself to them and everything like that met some really really nice. And probably the most helpful in kind person was actually the the organizer of that Agathon. When. I met him and everything like that. He gave me his contact information in and said Hey, we should get together sometime. I'm Cha and he was a professional programmer, running his own business and everything like that, so eventually I stayed in contact with him, and I met up with him, and I told him my journey and what I'm trying to do, super supportive of us all about helping people in my situation, you know like make connections, and even even help them with an internship and everything like that, and that's Kinda weird kicked off actually where it went from me trying to learn to me, actually making connections in potentially those connections leading to jobs. That was huge. Actually so this person that ran out. Pakistan also ran his on meet up. and His name was a little bit more. Mature he had a organized large meet ups and organised like a speakers where he would teach people how to get started with a new technology and all that stuff you know, so. This percent met up with them, and they're willing to like. Hey, you WANNA work on a project with. Wow real project like that's what I need to experience with a project, so I met with him or opt in some of the people that worked with him, and he ended up working with a lot of other guys that or just people in general men and women that were like kind of doing their own thing that a little bit more advanced as As programmers they're building girl websites starting their own software business in lake, a consulting and everything like that. That's where kind of took off. Is that connection? You know I to a upon met some people, and then it led to more people that we're kind of in the same boat as me, and if they are more advanced, they're willing to help me. By struggled with something and everything like that. It was really a douse like typical in me being successful. Yeah that is a great story and Other interviews I've been doing this season. We invite the guests on, and we think they have a really interesting transformation. Story is kind of like who I've been really Trying to get on the show this season and every single person that I've interviewed so far and there's been you know. Handful have all. Had this like really awesome Lake County. Component to their story and men like Kinda. Showing how supportive the tech community is in in various ways, and it sounds like you found that you know through this. Through connections through other connections with more experienced people in the field that helped catapult you forward in the they were able to help support you in various ways and maybe help if you're stuck as you said, build your first project and I think that's really cool I. Think it's really good for beginners to hear that because I know when I first started out in probably you, too. I would imagine it can be really intimidating and feel like very overwhelming, and you can feel really alone, and it's like it's almost. I haven't experienced like trying to break into other industries, but in a lot of ways I feel like even though texts seemed really intense in really hard I mean it is, but there's just such kind and helpful people like a friend, totally random side story, but she's not intact. She was trying to break into. The entertainment like film like Moodley TV shows. and. She had to work at an unpaid internship for like a year in really like claw her way up. She actually does really awesome. producing on really awesome documentaries now but. It was like really hard, very competitive very very. Very like you know and I feel like the tech community is so different from that like it's. People are Super Helpful yeah definitely. I've heard that as well. I'm not sure if it's if it's like the demand in this industry that were like trying to get into maybe people, maybe a logical gotten to it, and they kind of see you know all the hard work that. It takes. I, guess that they want to help other people as well or like coming from something like my background and everything like that. They kind of want to help people as well, but yeah, I noticed that as well as a lot of really helpful people, even before I started going through the ups and everything I joined twitter, and that's when I found like just like a free code cannot co Newbie A. PODCAST are their Hashtag in general dislike just to get help and everything like that, and when I when I reached out that way, just random people that were professionals judgment like hey. I think I'll struggling with. Like centering Adib or CSS, something something kind of silly. You know I needed help with it and some random person was like. Hey, Gimme, your hub Repo albeit with that was like. Wow, some random person that realize but more Santander worked at Microsoft or something like that and are willing to help I didn't even know this person but yeah, definitely noticed that about the industry's is a lot of willing people to help you regardless. Of Your background and everything like that. Yeah another guest I. Literally just had on the podcast said that she had so many breakthroughs. A CAITLIN for people listening to the show and in episode Caitlin. She was talking about how she had so many breakthroughs on twitter asking for help in people that she didn't even know. Offering to help her in various capacities, I feel like twitter is such a good. Well, it's funny. Because social media like every platform kind of has its own. Little like corner or whatever it could be really good for certain things and I feel like asking for help. Like in that way. Twitter is awesome because people will jump in people. It's almost like a forum, but it's not, but people are very like. Communicate unlike you know instagram or something, which is mostly about the photos and it's. It's not the same kind of. Environment just different. Anyway, it's it's interesting. Yeah so switching gears a tiny bit I would like to hear about how the new ended up getting your first full-time real position. Yeah absolutely. So it was when our meet up grew so when I met this person a friend. His name is nate a probably. Give him recognition there because east been so huge in my in my career as a friend and generally slow parental today we kind of joined are meet ups and we grew into this big. Meet Up. And it was like three hundred people. We grew to over three hundred people, and then we. He had connections with someone that was really involved in trying to grow the tech scene in the Central Valley of California. Washable, probably think though in California. It's like tech everywhere. Tech is huge, but that's really isolated towards like Silicon Valley Bay area, and when you go to the outskirts where I live, it's like farms and orchards in just really like farmland in. The outskirts of all the techie over the hill and there's all the big central. Silicon Valley everything like that, but out here it's it's completely different. There's still a lot of factories out here and everything like that, so tech isn't the big thing out here, so he was trying to person. He tried to basically bring tech out this way like hey companies. There's a talent out here as well so he was a part of that big that this big movement. That's still going on today so anyways. We ended up getting a space with his help, and he supported he. He got funding for it and we moved our meet up there. And, we were able to go reach out to the computer. Science professors ask some of the community colleges. They are able to come out. We reached out to people that talk computer science in the high schools I reach people on facebook I went out trying to like introduce myself to all these people, so we can grow all his these groups that are people better in software or coating to hey, come to this, Mita because we can all grow with the tech in the valley, so we had this large event whereas kicking off are merging of our beat ups, and we had I think. Over one hundred fifty people like almost two hundred people from professors in computer science to high school teachers in computer science to people, learning and everything like that so I went up there and I was speaking in front of it, and I was basically motivating other people that were in my position like hey. You guys? Should really you know? I was trying to leaning towards free code camp like if you guys want to learn to cope because those people that were like thinking about it, you know not really that much into it, so I kind of wanted to focus on those people because that's where they had the experience of coming from so was like. Hey, you know it's not that hard to get into it. There's some really really great resources that are free. That doesn't cost anything you know. MEET UPS like this a lot of great connections here and people willing to help you. If you're struggling every twenty five solves talking. They're all that and at that. Meet up was a few other. That worked at companies nearby when Consulting Agency the the banks have some of their software people out in the Central Valley as well and a couple of of the people that were there were friends with my friend, nate, a one that have basically helped me out and everything that always connections. He introduced me to one of guys there and he said Hey his company's hiring. I want you. I want to introduce you to Michael and this is after all is kind of getting already getting. Getting experience with building some projects and everything and my friend was like. Yeah, he knows what he's doing now. He he's employable. He's definitely has experience with building front, and back and software and everything so introduced me to a friend of his name of Josh and he worked for a company that basically did consulting for like probations, law enforcement software. They did software for E N NJ Gallo, a lot of big companies, so they're really established there around for like twenty years so I met with him. And then he was like where we're actually looking for someone. More junior developer is like Amir number. We eventually had coffee. Just Kinda. Talk and everything like that and we just hit it off. We kind of our personalities. Kind of you know He. We liked hanging out and everything like that, so that kind of started like a friendship, you know. We talked for about a year and. And you'd help you with stuff like that and I was like. Hey, and he's like our company is kind of in the middle of Lake, you know hiring, but they kinda. Put a freeze on that everything like that, so after about a year when I. When I met him, he finally called me up one day, and the funny story is that I was getting to a point. In in learning how to Code and currently working where I was almost ready to give up, because it felt like I was putting effort and then. I wasn't getting any any reward from like. If I was applying everywhere and I wouldn't get any kind of response to resume. I reached out to people to help with resume all these things. Did I did a lot? Maybe not everything that could have just because I didn't know, but I felt like I was getting any hits on my resume or If I. DID GET A call. It was like you know I didn't know how to do some kind of algorithm that I didn't learn or memorize or whatever it was, so I was getting really discouraged, almost going to be like. Maybe I do need to go to school at unity at degree. Maybe I need to just join a boot camp or or joint something that is going to make me be more appealing to employers so I was looking. and. Just kind of getting really discouraged at that time. But the funny thing is that I got a call for my friend Josh and he goes. Hey, we have this contract coming up. We need to hire a developer and I've been talking to my boss about you and we'd like to bring you on. He's like. Of course we'll interview you and everything like that and he's like. Are you interested in? He's like. Like I'm almost one hundred percent, sure they've we bring you on because you know like I know you and I know your work, and I can help you and everything like that and I was like. Are you kidding me? And when he told me that I was thrilled, I was actually really scared. Same time this is reality is like real software coding. In, part of me was going to say no like I do this. This is too much like the difference between working on side projects that you know like whatever no one's really going to care about versus working on software that people use so I. I got really scared. I even once. My wife and I was like I. Don't know if I can do this like I'm GonNa. Quit my job and I go do this and then I fail. I can't go back to that job. I can't do that, you know. This is a big decision. You know I've been here for nine years or whatever it was. So ultimately, my my wife convinced me and was like you need to do this. People don't get good things unless they take some kind of risk. Regardless, you should try you know. So I call it my friend. I told him I concerns and Josh was like you know you're just trying to scare yourself out of. It Dude so just take it from me. I'm going to be there to help you, so don't worry us to take this. Just, take it you know and I was like. Okay, let's set up the interview and everything like that and goes all right, so set the interview and. They hired me. And that was basically it I started there with no professional experience. It was all because of someone was willing to help me know again back to that. You know this industry is always really helpful people that are willing to take a chance on you and help me help you and everything, and and and of course there's a lot of challenges you know working in in actually writing real software and everything like that, but in the long run it really helped me in was just huge into getting my job, and then after that first job. Of course, my resume after that just everyone always cared to look at it. You know I I didn't have nearly as. Much difficulty looking for next role after that I think it's like once you get your first job regardless of its junior level, or whatever in in this industry it kind of goes downhill OCTA that you actually get considered. You know you'll get your resume looked at. You'll get that first interview and everything like that. Yeah Wow, so. How long did you work there at the first job? And then what what kind? You don't have to get like super detailed, but like what kind of work redoing essentially. There year, so I started off working on a back end actually of in node framework, or on the no runtime. Basically, the contract was migrating some. It's funny because I went from like barely learning it in writing mostly front end to writing some back in code and the PRI, the contract was basically taking some old enterprise services that were written in Java and then rewriting them on no gs lambda, so that that was what I was doing for like the first four months and after that contract and they moved on to another. Another project and it was more full stack. It was job script. It was using angular on the front end no on the back end and some sequel server, but I got the rightful stack of front end back in using Java javascript note and everything like that. It was really fun. 'cause I got to work on two different big projects there and I learned so much. That's where my whole stack experience kind of took off I got I got to learn so much and the people that I worked with worse huge. It was just I can't even express how thankful I am to people that I work with there and I still am friends with them. That helped me explained things a broke things down. And having been able to understand these other languages. Yeah Wow and I know you recently got a laid off due to cove in nineteen. was that from this same employer or was this another job you had gotten after leaving that company? Another story so I was there at that company for about a year, and then towards the end my wife and I found out. We're GONNA. Have Child and so I needed to. That company was great for it was actually a bump in salary than I currently made up. My Company the light, Bulb Company, but it's I still needed to. I needed to progress I needed to move on and grow my career, and financially so I started to look I started. You know I even asked my boss at the time. I was like Hey I have a child, the ways or any chance that I can move up or anything like that, and you give me feedback, and it was like yeah, definitely, in whatever amount of time so I took that and say okay, that's CREPE. should start looking in see by even get my resume considered now that experience so I started to look, and then I got hired at a start up in the bay area and Silicon Valley. And I was there for almost a year way so i. don't want I. Don't want to interrupt you, but was at working remotely or you move there. I actually had hybrid role, so I would go into the office like an hour and a half commute two days a week. And then worked from home the other days, but yeah, it was a there. I got a taste of the whole silicon valley. Feel of how software companies ran, and my skills went up even higher because of that environment, but yeah, so I was there for about a year and It was a startup that wasn't able to get another round of funding, so actually we all. They started laying people off. fortunately they didn't lay the soccer team like right away, but since we found that out, we started to look all the engineers that worked at that company, or like Oh they're not getting. Funding is a good chance. They're gonNA lay people off, so we all started looking and I got hired at the Credit Union and I. was there for about a year? or about a year exactly actually, and due to the pandemic and everything like that they started to kind of restructure, reorganize everything and effected a lot of teams, including my own team and We're a part of that layoffs will. But yeah, it was. It was kind of something that I. Could. Imagine obviously has affected a lot of people everywhere, and it feels like it's just one of those times. That no-one can have planned for, but yeah. I've been a part of that have been affected by that as well. Yes, so justice like for myself in the listeners, so you basically had three different jobs like intech at this point in each for about a year. Give or take, so you essentially now have like three years of like fulltime software engineering experience. And the most recent position that you've got furloughed related offer a Is that a credit union? And what were you doing there so? It's interesting. 'cause you've such like different experience like from like like a consulting firm to a tech startup to credit union like I imagined that the experiences at each one were quite different like the environment of in the way people work in south. Absolutely so. Go working at a credit union, it's a pretty large credit union and the way things are done there as opposed to the other companies that I worked at. Worse it significantly different so look the startup that I worked at. They were pretty large. Start up there actually around for ten years they had employed over three hundred people. The engineering team was fifty engineers people and. They operated like they were a big tech company and everything like that, so but at the same time I had the experience of being able to shift. To project same time like there's times when I was working on a mobile APP and one for one sprint I'd be working on a whole two weeks on a mobile APP, and then I'd be pivoted to work on their web APP, clients. Front end code, and then after that I'd be working on some hardware code completely different working on a proprietary algorithm that needs to be converted in red on a mobile APP. It was different stuff all the time, and it was really exciting, but also really nerve wracking because of the context, switching a lot and learning new languages at the same time. So that was I learned a lot by lot of the fast paced stuff at that start up, and then when I got to the Credit Union. There was a little bit more relaxed because those only one product that I worked on essentially. Korb, inking APP and there I had a team of eight engineers that were dedicated for this core banking APP. I got brought on as a senior engineer there, and then that that role kind of pivoted towards a lead developer. I was on that project for about four months. And then my a boss. Promoted to the lead developer of that team so essentially there was a lot different roles because for one it was one project, and it was a mobile APP. I had experience with mobile APP at the other company, but not to this extent, it was just a huge mobile APP. And the primary, the primary objective being handling with people's money was probably a significant factor to the change of of like a importance of the application that part probably. At a lot to the stress when I worked knowing that you're working on something that deals with people's money and five hundred thousand active members so that was a big learning experience. And I do. I learned a lot of new stuff learned new languages learned how to do a lot of things that you wouldn't typically do web development, but yeah, it was a lot of differences in structure, probably a lot of different departments that you have to work with before you can get approval in changing something like maybe typically and. Change some piece of code that would maybe look slightly different, because it just makes more sense while at the Credit Union. It wasn't that simple. You had to get a lot of approvals and a lot of test. Writing to make sure lingers securer in a rented to different avenues. You know which was different. Yeah, that yeah makes dealing with financial information. You know sensitive data, and all that would be quite different. I imagined so now that your you by the time episode airs, you could already be in a new job, but. Being active in your job search now. What kind of company aiming to work out? What do you want to stay in like? The financial industry are trying to go back to a startup or maybe a consulting firm that you get to work all these different projects. Yeah, what were you? What did you like the most I guess? Let's see. Probably a ideally would wouldn't stay in the financial industry just because. All the little differences in how delayed development can be due to all those hoops. You have to jump through, but probably most fun I had was. Working in consulting agency. Because working so many different things. Different projects everything like that, but a lot of them had their own pros and cons. You know in terms of like. What I would prefer probably something that is more established due to. More stability just because of everything. That's going on right now. I've heard a lot of people have lost their jobs regardless of the industry even in software I would probably prefer stability. If I could choose regardless of the industry but Yeah. It's probably it's probably more geared towards that. You know what I can find that it is more stable and everything like that. I do have a few other avenues in alert. You know companies that I'm going through right now so I am confident that something will end soon. That's probably the good part is that they're still a high demand for software engineers and everything like that, so there's a lot of good a good places that are hiring right now and everything like that. But. They do specific Yeah Yeah Gotcha so I'm. Kind of jumping around here, but I really wanted to ask this question, and it goes back to your glassblowing experience. I was wondering if there was anything from that or your position before a Jumba juice that you. Were able to transfer or in some way to you in your job, your new job as a software developer. Probably the thing that. I don't know if it helped me, but there's a few different things probably so working probably in an environment that required me to have a lot of perseverance, probably aided to my benefit, and in general and just work ethic. It helps me To be able to deal with probably stresses and deadlines Challenges in my current role because I dealt with that a lot on any. Of can can relate to that. Is You know working in a place like that or just any kind of work that requires them to give a little bit extra is required, just laken. Succeed or do well their job. It probably just helps helped with those areas in work ethic to work hard enduro ally and everything like that but also know what I want going forward, and what I don't want in a career or or next role. Also of a big part of that. Working at that company helped me in was. Probably having difficult conversations with my employer I had a lot of those at that company and it prepared me to be able to deal with those difficult situations. A lot better at all night, other roles a and what I mean, my difficult situations, probably dealing with difficult people another one being having a conversation with your superiors about compensation You know asking for what you feel like. You deserve and everything like that I've had a lot of those, and they didn't go so well at that company that I feel really confident and know how to approach those types of people or Whenever those conversations need to happen, you know. It can be difficult for a lot of people, but I think have so much experience with it that it's. It's kind of more fluid and how to do in the right way. It's aided a lot in that in in my career going forward. Yeah that makes sense and like. I, I can only imagine like the stressors you deal with being in an environment with the glassblowing like Super Hot. You said you were sent home from heat exhaustion, the stress like literally the physical danger bringing yourself. It's like working from home as a software engineer or star office in Silicon. Valley is like the stress level would be so much less like the. They compare Cinderella the stressors you're dealing with compared to maybe like the ones at the other place. Yeah, like whole other scar accord whole other thing, right? We are like running at time and there's one last question I want to ask before we wrap this out and it's just if you could share any like final advice to people listening right now. Who are just starting out? Maybe they were where you were like. You know four or five years ago. Whenever whenever you got your start. What advice would you give them? All. Let's see so I. Think for one perseverence when things feel like it's difficult, it may be difficult at first, but the more and more you do it in the more and more you practice. You'll eventually understand it some complicated things that I. That I could not have imagined when I first started of doing I'm able to thoroughly explain. They seem like almost simple. Now I think the more and more you do it. The the more natural feel, and it'll be really simple. Just just keep on doing it and things easier. also in your journey and learning. It's really important to try to reach out to people to make connections go to meet UPS ask questions. Because those are going to be the areas where where you're gonNA find a connection that can help you find that career and ultimately successful in in this career field. But those are probably the two biggest ones is. Now I know it's hard at first, but it gets easier, and it gets fun on the challenges they start to face. Get really exciting, and it's really rewarding. Ultimately you know all hard work will pay off as long as you just keep to it. And it will pay off so yeah, awesome, great advice in a great way to end this interview. Thank you so much again for coming on. Where can people find you online? Yeah absolutely. Probably a mitre twitter, a twitter handle is mit p. j are eight eight. Or my website is just a my name, my first name Michael or implemental. Dial my personal, Mitchell my last name.

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