Europe, Sweden, America discussed on 21st Century Radio
Join us fascinating view from the ground about what actually happens when local citizens anywhere in the world. Take back their power their voice their economic presence and decision making in their own communities. I know nobody better to hold conversation about these topics with that our guest this hour, Dr Helaine, I call her Dr Elena Norberg Hajja the doctor at all Elena. Thank you. I actually vanden my PHD Chung scale in language. The only place in the world could actually decide for my faces. And I thought it's wasted time. So call you doctor Dr Halina on everything. So the last time we were together we talked a little bit about your own experience in foreign nations who've been subject to western values in corporate capitalism. And then what happened during the course of your experience, and maybe you can kind of recap that we always have new listeners. And I think it gives us a good serve subtext to how you came at this work from such a deep involvement. Thank you. Yeah. Probably started earlier than I did last time because I realized that hard in my take on of having had the experience of living in many, different coaches and speaking many languages and Paul about was growing up in Sweden, you know, socialist country and then also living in America later on. I live in France Germany in. Australia I've traveled extensively in Mexico. Italy say, and I learned in the language in in those places I become fascinated in trying to understand different views in different cultures. And then in nine hundred seventy five I was invited to go out as part of a film team to this remote traditional high on the tobacco plateau, Coa dock and also Tibet that was part of the one that had not been Cullen is d- and this ancient traditional Kutch is really reinforced and crystallized other observations that I have particularly comparing America to Europe. But even within Europe, I had found that in more in less developed pots of of Europe, it was more family. There was more community that was more respectful farming. It was a deep connection to the land and the resources and a strong community and in the high and dusty lies places in cluding, my native clean people so cut off Belichick evade been shifted through the modern global economy that was brought in their much good intention off to the second. World War was fought in genetic way ringing in modern industrial agriculture, which you know, came from the toxic chemicals that have been used for the weapons applied in the mand. But even really well intention people became convinced. It's efficient large Mona cultural cultural production was going to make life easier genuinely progressive so they brought in a country where people were replace machinery talks chemical. And then people shoved into high rise living in ever few cities. So that started a throws his of mega been -sation and mega industrialization of cuts, and I realize that even in its heyday swayed was really a place with people cutoff lonely, and isolated and this is reinforced after I had made in agok in ancient self reliant Clinton, be Sakorn Amies coaches with people would threes, the healthiest and the happiest of any people I have ever encountered and coming back to Sweden and try to. Hey, wait a minute. What are we doing? I realize in the mid seventies already that in all all the dwellings in Stockholm in base apartments and houses one puzzles leaving a low and there was such clear signs of depression alcohol. Lissome suicide, and I was trying to say, wait initially connected life that you know, that in fact, logical research, they've found even if you have a goldfish or something of a line in you have to be happy, and the is this really clear pattern with more connected to the plums the animals to the life around them and really importantly connected to each other that much happening. Not so, yeah, I had already when I was young I reflected on the fact that in the sixties ticks in America were that the average child growing up had to move about seven times was the parents who moving to jobs for the economy that was already becoming less stable, and I compared that you know, at that time that. Probably the reason we had a bitch more community in Sweden and in Austria had studied at university and Italy insane. I found you know, Pippa had much strongly sense of identity that with much less troubled. They there was this violence was next depression list, psychological problems. I talking too long. No, no, no, no. I think to have the whole picture is is really essential. Because. You know, when we think about how fast everything is going now, and everything is connected and all the multitasking, which is really sort of a subversion of the mind. So that the mind can't do very much deep, and yes, maybe you can get things done, but they're not necessarily being done in a in a deep sense from heart and mind, but you notice, and you talk about this is that when this global corporatism comes in brings in factory or brings a new goods or brings in the TV and brings in the computer, and then brings in the values of the west that it is such a destructive effect on the local economies on the sanctity of traditions on the welfare of the people from there as you point out from their ability to grow and keep their own food. And that's really one of the things you all are working on to make sure we have sovereignty over our food. It's a thing. That's I've always cared. Most about. But the effect of this global ization is not just about making money and making products this computerized Inter-nationality while there's some beautiful things that can come from it. There's some very destructive things. We're already seeing happened to the just the general community as community. Yeah. And I would say that again, postal my perspective to lead that tobacco is one. That is very read these days in order to see them talking about people would have to back to read books and even one hundred years ago when people had an experience of an encounter deeply in an ongoing way of coachee where people not been colonized difficulties days, if you go to the sort of technical village in India, China, not most Africa, did you see type of public T you seeing people who through colored sation. Or two modern development, which is another form of enslavement through debt. Major disruptions all the time. The modern economy have to remember from the beginning has been focused on the swing. Selker lines did in the theory is comparative advantage, which really suited Bloedel trade is back in the seventies and sixteen hundred who would destroy self reliant communities and order to push them onto huge monocultures to provide for the west. You know, they grow it in cotton plantations to Kofi mining and in Europe Pygmalion, close pushed off the land to become cheap labor in the factories. So in order to really get clarity on tradition pasta. And so we really do have to go really only look at places that had not yet been enslaved in that way. So I do want to say that when you also see in those faces as I didn't have and baton and to some extent and bum or. Then the role of technology you're seeing completed from picture because once you have colonized people have thousands of people from giant cotton Ponte Shen when them technology, of course, excite Kogas, people standing bent over the whole day doing the same thing some kind of mechanical, and so you place that with machinery and everybody says, oh, yeah. That's programs. They haven't compared it with a way of producing food. If you've lied charge their land resources, they have a whole range of different activities different products. And by the way in small diversified farms years much, higher method other important, quite we should talk about. Now. What's happened is that we don't go back. Go back Ogle rapidly. Full to the localization moment, we come see so kidding white. Technology is more the problem than it is an advantage. We have to actions. That win conducive bodies date and do like, you know, farming as part of a community group doing different things every day even within the same day. They're different activities. They are finding that fall more enjoyable than sitting in front of the computer day, they're finding the bodies actually need and not only experiencing that. But there's more and more medical research. Nab it's telling us. I don't know if you've heard this saying don't do computer within twenty minutes get up every twenty minutes and move, otherwise, you, you know, you're going to be talking about a bad back about all kinds of croplands pressure also things anyway, I would argue that today waking up in a holistic way to the role of technology in the global economy. And really, you know, I will it's about waking up to the road of the global climbing. Once you sit from a healthy baseline, healthy more community deep in gauge to the natural world. More productive ways of growing food building houses, providing basic needs including medical cat. If we look at the role of technology on this from the holistic point of view, we will see that the internet has been a tool that has Vaseli strengthen global corporations that are really are decimating jobs social cohesion of environment as an accelerating rate. Using those tools we win came down to the Brussels. They seduced kid blue in the sixties and seventies wanted more community wanted more connection to the land. They told oh now so the information age new going to be able to sit in your village head all that beauty of nature have community, and you'll be to be, you know, job knitting for raw for the computer. Whether the promises of the information society had knocked worked. All around. People are general patterns, people are working hard FOSS to just stay in place. And I'm insane placing of aid mortgage have some kind of educational opportunities. So the children have some kind of health care to do that people working harder longer than Abba. So I'm really really came that we try to encourage a deep and broad look at this. And look at it from the point of view Walker me do to get what can we do when we changed to a we it's impossible for anyone imagine icon to living that my computer and more visiting my mobile phone. We have all been made dependent on these tools and have picks you said, well, you know, you just stop using those is absolutely ridiculous. We need to make use of those tools, and as you're doing self. Having rated program to start join discussion, and I hope rapidly wake up to the fact that we concept rate the Paul technology, particularly over the last thirty forty years with the cough of corporate power. Pose a big money in big science. In other words, almost all the money has gone into off favors not just giant corporations that ultimately the military industrial complex in a way that it's extremely destructive. And of no question about it. Yeah. I mean, we do have to take a break. But it's really true when we look at the and some people like to call it the corporate military industrial complex. It's rather extrordinary invasion of idea. In fact, it became an acceptable restraint in the military became the the st-. Strategy for healthcare. It's okay. Do this do that to the body? You know, thirty percent dive at the other seventy one. So it's like an acceptable risk. Let's bomb the village to save a few huts. It's same kind of sickness of domination and exploitation and ultimately ruination. The rest of the program. We're gonna look out with our guests. Helena Norberg Hodge from this wonderful organization called local futures. And you must go to their website..