Arthur Ford, Ford, Harry discussed on Coast to Coast AM

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

To coast AM on cagey. Oh, eight ten. Thomas Rosetto, my guest, the author of living the paradox of enlightenment, and the essay we're discussing Houdini. Afterlife experiment. Did it work and that is posted up at the coast to coast, AM dot com website and Thomas's website is well infinitely mystical dot com. Time is Thomas, so let's get to the the CEO aunts. At best this house in January of nineteen twenty nine and Arthur Ford is there this is the the medium who had reached out to her. So so what happens? Arthur Ford shows up, and he Arthur Ford, usually works with a spirit named Fletcher and Fletcher is in touch with Houdini and this ability for the spirit world to communicate to our physical world is a little bit tricky to navigate and so sometimes spirits need a little more help with this and apparently Houdini as mother the spirit of genie's mother was also present to make this all happen. And they were able to make it kind of a like a show a very theatrical show where Harry would work with best the same way they worked when they were on stage and use her as an assistant and and have her. Well, he was very poetic with our very at times, very touching and romantic. And there were statements like throw open the curtain and all of this. But what they did was they put this ten key words on the table. And then they decoded them. And after it was. Decoded the message I'll tell it in just a minute. But first I want to explain that best is nickname that Harry used for her with Rosa bell. And this came about two popular song right around the time when they got married and this song had a little bit or perhaps more of this song inside her wedding ring. And so Harry, Calder Rosa bell. And so the message once it was decoded was Rosa bell lease and it really really touched best. And she was very very strong and clear in her language that her husband had spoken to her. And did anyone did anyone know did Arthur Ford? No that Roosevelt was the pet name for Besser was this common knowledge. It might have been known throughout the close friends. So I really can't say about that. There's a story going around that I've registered. The other day on the internet because I was trying to brush up on this kind of stuff. Someone said that there was a big romance between Arthur Ford and bass who is twenty years older than he he saw her wedding ring and saw the inside of it and saw where it said Roosevelt, and blah, blah, blah. I just don't find this credible. So I won't go into it. But yeah, there are people that say that it's quite possible that they would have known that he referred to as Roosevelt, but the believe is actually came through the decoding of those other. And again, he just he didn't Ford through his spirit guide Fletcher. Just didn't shout out the word believe they used this secret coding message that we had mentioned earlier using those keywords pray answer. Say now tell please speak quickly look and be quick in. And these all when decoded spelled out the message which began with Roosevelt and and believe yes. Yes. And she declared this a success she declared it a success. Correct. Absolutely. And down. In fact, the very next day. In fact, I think this was written in another newspaper by someone who is president to say on said, this is a lot of nonsense. It wasn't true. And and so that's why her statement says regardless of any statements made to the contrary I wished to declare that the message and its entirety and in the agreed upon sequence. Given to me by Arthur Ford is the correct message pre-arranged between Mr. Houdini and myself, and then it signed by not only her but three witnesses one of them is a Representative of the United Press. Another one is one of her lifelong, friends and another one is someone from scientific American. And these this this letter was reprinted in the New York Times. And she gave an interview to the times again confirming that that this was a success that had happened. Yeah. I think so in effect the newspaper articles that I was reading you could clearly see her in support for a good while and then around fourteen months after this. There's a hard switch where she suddenly starts sitting out there. Now, anything was valid that. There was any evidence whatsoever. That this was a genuine contact. So it's it's quite shocking. But before that before she recanted. There was another reporter with a either a magazine or a newspaper called the New York. Graphic graphic rather than your graphics and tell me about this reporter is it re- Jawari I can't pronounce the name. But. But I think the first name is Ari. A and I think it's pronounced right? She had an apartment, and she invited Arthur Ford over to visit her and she was going to interview him, and she had some friends hiding, I don't know where they're hiding in the closet but hiding somewhere and they're going to witness this exchange. Well, the person that shows up not really author Ford. It's someone that's been paid to in person eight Arthur Ford, and he shows up, and he says, I I paid MRs Houdini some money, she gave me the code. I'm just here to tell you the truth. I just you know, it's really funny because that's heard about at well, the reporter wrote this up and so- bass responded in a letter to that same paper where she just completely denies that. There's she's been a party of fraud in any anyway. And if Arthur Ford said that they were in cahoots. He's a liar. I mean, she's very clear in this letter goes on and on and I had never seen this letter until yesterday, and it's an article posted on a website and the author's name is Greg Newkirk. So this was written to Walter wind chill, the great Walter winchell. That's what I thought I had read that. There was a letter written to watch Walter winchell. And he was yes, the social go-to guy, you know, and, but this kind of made it look like it was a letter written to this. The New York evening graphic. But it doesn't matter there may have been two letters, but she was very supportive in these were supposed to be private letters. The letter starts off saying this letter is not for publicity. I do not need publicity. You know? I'm just telling you. I was no party, Danny fraud. You know? But anyway, there's a number of things like this. Where it looks like someone saying we've got proof there's fraud he confessed. And then it's like, yeah. But that wasn't him. His lawyer said he was somewhere else at the time. So Arthur Ford didn't go to this meeting with this reporter at all, right? However at some point Bess Houdini further muddies the water because although she has been insisting and insisting that had happened, then she does an abrupt about-face. Yes. And you know in the first days after the message happened in one of the newspaper articles. I read something where she says, oh, by the way, my family and friends, they don't buy this. You know, they don't believe in spirit communication, you know. And so I think that this festered and she was tired of being ridiculed by your friends being labeled a nut. And I think she just told it and said, you know, what I'm I'm I'm going to go back to my friends. I want them to excess except me and she even said things like if anyone says they get in touch with me after my death and knows that it's false. I will not try to get in touch with anyone. So this also muddy the water. And when I mean, how long after the seance in twenty nine was she recanting and changing her position. I think it was about fourteen months, fourteen months, and but also she had at some point she had offered up an award a reward a ten thousand dollar prize to anyone to ten thousand. But and then she refused to pay for it. So what's interesting too? Because you know, if you really wasn't cahoots with Arthur Ford, he could have done this, much, more gracefully. She basically said, hey, look, I'm not paying because a couple of weeks before this happened. I retract the offer. Well, that sounds pretty pretty iffy. Whereas if they were in cahoots he could have said, I'm so happy that she's so generous, but I don't want my spiritual progress to be hindered. By some kind of monetary motivation would have been much more graceful. You should I mean, but it was just days after where she says. I'm not gonna pay the money. Right. So your your feelings are the best basically, and she herself was an avowed debunked for fifty years. And so the social pressure from her family was just too much. And so she she caved and she recanted. Yeah. That's what happened. I think the subtitle of my essay says something like that does MRs Houdini wanna be a nut or something like that not on the online version, but but anyway, I think she's just got tired of arguing with anybody and wanted to be with the people that you've been with her whole life and be accepted by them. There's also a lot of confusion, and we should touch on this because I think we should go into everything Arthur Ford himself shortly after I think it was about a couple of years after he was in a really bad car accident. He was with his sister. I accident and his healing process. This is aided by painkillers and some of this is morphine, and he becomes addicted to morphine, and he for the rest of his life has morphine and alcohol problems. And I think this might have affected his ability to function as a psychic and much later near the end of his life. And I'm sorry. I don't have the dates on this. He was involved at a very high profile say on with pike. That's the name that comes to mind James pike up. Yes. It was up here on on in Canada. On a Canadian hotel. There's another Canadian connection. Yes. Yes. And I think it's I'm looking at it. Now, nineteen sixty seven Ford how a say on for pike. Now. Pike son had tragically committed suicide the year before. Now, what four did for this high profile seance with he on the acres? Do. You're kind of breaking up a honest Thomas. I'm not sure if it's your cordless phone or a cell phone. But maybe if you keep very still and speak, maybe. Okay. It's actually a voice over IP line. And sometimes it does break that a little better. It is. Okay. So James pike. This is an episcopal Bishop his son had committed suicide a year earlier. And now Ford is doing a seance on Canadian television. Yes. And and he does a little luck front research brings it into the sand says if he's getting it in a psychic way. Whereas in fact, he got it from a conventional way this was discovered after four died and people went through his papers and sound his research, preparing for the sats, and that's why people say this. So this is another black Mark against Arthur Ford, and it's again, muddies the water. So this case the Houdini caves as fun as it is. And it's exciting. It is. It's not going to be the first breakthrough convince all the hard. No skeptics it. Just isn't right. But but okay. So Ford is discredited because of the saints in Canada in nineteen sixty seven, but as you point out. He had been taking morphine he had been drinking perhaps that had damaged his medium abilities. Does that necessarily discredit the work that he did on on the Houdini case? Yeah. Yes. That's the way. I see it does or doesn't. I it puts a cloud over it. But it doesn't necessarily directly bear on it. Now despite buses recanting, and, you know, saying no, I don't believe that Harry communicated with me, nor could he then why did she continue to do these seances high profile public Sanchez on the anniversary of Harry's death for the next ten years? She did it for ten years after his death. But she didn't start them until a couple of years into that. So she did about seven of them is my count, but the point is still well taken. And here's the way, I look at it wind. She was with Harry, she would be onstage at times, and Harry was the.

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