Elba Chino Rosenberg, Julius, Ethel discussed on True Consequences
I would be into that. It's really beautiful. People have weddings. There will like you said it's on High Street. The Victorian style probably two story house. Yep Exactly Yep so. They have the same exact room where Ruth Greenglass and David Greenglass Staden when he was shuttling the nuclear secrets to his wife to eventually pass on to his brother-in-law Julius Rosenberg So greenglass later became known as code-named Bumblebee. So if I go back to make what are these things have in common trump whitesands bumblebee? Now you're getting more the picture. So he's Bumblebee. He is Bumblebee. So it was transformers. He was the transformer all the time it was a car wasn't even human so Rosenberg. Not None of this happened by accident. Rosenberg was an active member of the Soviet. Union's like support group was a Communist Party member. And he's an American though. Yeah in Manhattan right so Julius Rosenberg. David Greenglass brother-in-law was an active member of the Soviet Union spy ring and his handler slash mentor at the time encouraged him to recruit his brother-in-law. David Greenglass Greenglass was an active soldier in the US Army but he and his wife Ruth had also previously joined the Youth Communist League prior to this happening so all of them had interconnected relationships with the Communist Party in the Soviet identity and the and the climate at the time was not as like anti-communism as it became after all of this happened but it was starting to build up. I think that like a lot of people in America were against Communism which stood for and They felt that it was anti-american that it was anti freedom and so for people to be like people were part of the Communist Party before this it was just a thing right. It was a thing you just like. I'm a Democrat. I'm a Communist. I'm a Republican. But then after this all kind of fleshes out it starts to become more hostile towards absolutely. Yeah the Communist. The Communist Party in the United States was more affiliated with the working class working unions and labor rights exactly and the spouse ings of like Emma. Goldman who was a huge labor rights activists who pushed for like the eight hour workday and women getting access to birth control sweatshops ending sweatshops. Exactly Yeah So. It was very common actually for people to align themselves politically with what was previously identified as being Liga communistic party. It was at this time this World War Two and later on during the Cold War that we obviously began to develop all this very negative sentiment towards that concept and it. You know to be fair. It wasn't helped by the Russia regime at the time. They were super brutal. It was a dictatorship even though in the guys like a communist buying on CBS. They were spying us. I'm sure we were doing saved. One hundred percent spying on them too so greenglass and David Greenglass already had his connections. Julius Rosenberg was encouraged by his handler. By his connections to really push for David Greenglass to share information that he was getting from Los Alamos so we don't know what that coversation looked like. We don't know if there was any sort of coercion. All we know is that David. Greenglass took information from Los Alamos and shared it with his wife and his brother-in-law Julius Greenglass Aka Bumblebee continued to share information with Julius and Julius is code named Jesse now was code named antenna. So the Soviet spy network didn't just end with those two. They didn't want just want to hedge their bets. There they also targeted a well-known scientist him. Klaus Fuchs like we talked about and his code name was Charles in his counterpart. A R. L Z yes. Yeah sorry no it's okay. That was weird. Yeah maybe that's like the Russian version I duNno and his counterpart to transfer information. Was Ted Hall code-named Millard Millard? Millard Miller is that like a bird that's Mallard L. Malehda Dwight so. I watched a couple of documentaries about this. Whole thing and hall was allegedly a genius like he was Super Smart Scientific mind he was young and there was one scientists that work with him on this project and he said that he could do things like ninety percent faster than everybody else because he was just so smart now so hall and Fuchs. Focus was primarily on the use of uranium specifically. You two three five power their dispatches for that research didn't get didn't end up reaching Moscow until much later on so we don't really know that their spy efforts had a huge impact because for some reason their information didn't get to Moscow in timely fashion also Ted Hall was working with his former roommate another career for the Soviet Union and his name was Saville. Sax and Sax would also shuttle secrets so they would also have clandestine meetings at UNM campus really. Yeah in in this book that I found a spice guy to Santa Fe and Albuquerque. They have photos of like specific locations at UNM that they met at location specific to Santa Fe that the spies would meet out to share information. So it's really cool so everytime driving around campus. I always remember like Oh my God these people here like these people were here physically standing here sharing nuclear secrets. It's so crazy that's insane. And also like the way that they distributed this information back to Russia was pretty crazy like I. I saw this whole thing about the Telegraph and the telegram So they would just send these wire cables through Western Union back. Then it wasn't just money money union me some money on Western Union area. No but they they actually would send these secrets through a coded message and the code itself was so complicated like I got really confused watching and learning about how they did the code but they said that even today with supercomputers the way they are. They're still basically unbreakable as you have the key and so there was one guy in particular who was working in Los Alamos to decode all of these cables and figured it out. How so he actually learned all of these code names. He knew he's one of the discovered Charles and Bumblebee and all these other things. He's a very smart guy who's like multi-lingual that's the only reason. He was able to decode this. How he knew Russian he knew English these other languages and he figured out the code cracked the code and was able to determine that we were actually losing all of these secrets. All of these top secret things that were going on with this project. We're just going right to Russia. Wow it was amazing I will show. Is THAT SMART. It'd be a spy but I would just rub it in people's faces fund Los Alamos actually has the highest percentage of a master's level educated people in the state rousted. But what do you got? You're welcome have you like them? Apples the real smart Boston. I Dunno actress because I might he? I don't know I was thinking of goodwill hunting mark. Wahlberg again no Matt Damon. I think more complex in goodwill I know you said Boston. Oh yeah but it. Doesn't it takes place in Boston? Harbor Hav Greenglass was eventually apprehended in one thousand nine hundred fifty when his transgressions were discovered World War Two was over but the US was entering a phase a new war and that was a Cold War with Russia. So we also know this as the red scare so Russia was enemy numero uno number one. Sorry Putin Yup Sills Green glass quickly. Dimed out Julius and his sister Ethel in order to secure protection for he and his wife. We wanted you to say dimed out. What is that route it out? You're getting mad because I'm using this expression. Dimed out. I use the phrase dimed out in always read it out to be only one. You're saying it's not a New Mexico. That's fine I've always said dimed out. Yeah he sold them out. He sold amount out. He dimed him out. He sold them out. Hopefully your listeners will support me in the use of the expression timed out. They won't support so obviously in order to protect himself and his wife led to the fall of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg he basically just bitched out. I mean he totally threw them under the bus. It's really unclear if he ever regretted this. Like you can find some old photos of. When he's leaving the court after testifying against his sister and his brother-in-law he doesn't look distraught or upset. I think he ended up living under an assumed name and died later on. I think one researcher found out where he lived and made contact with him but he didn't share any sort of reflection on any sort of sense of guilt or or anything so it's I think it would be complicated to unravel what that dynamic looks like especially when it came to who bore the majority of the responsibility where was everybody equal partners or what but who board the majority of the consequences right. That's the real quick. Yeah so yeah so going into that point. Let's talk about. Ethel and Julius is prosecution. So Roy Cohen became a lead prosecutor of the Rosenberg trial. They were eventually executed in one thousand nine hundred eighty four. After being found guilty of espionage. They died by electric chair. Okay sadly they left behind two young children and also. There's a lot of like I think that your point here and my point is that there are a lot of other people involved. They did not suffer even close to that level of consequence and the level of involvement. I think is questionable especially on. Ethel's part that her son is really advocating for justice for her claiming that she was wrongfully accused. I know that she was Communist Party. American which was the thing back then. But there's a lot of questions about how involved she was directly as opposed to her brother's wife Right. Who was ruth? Greenglass was very involved and admittedly so and not just that but like hall and Fuchs and all these other people. They didn't get electrocuted right now. That's a really good point for some reason. Cohen have is is laser pointed towards Ethel and Julius. He's GonNa make an example out of them again. If you get a chance to check out angels in America there's Roy Cohen's character is played by Elba Chino Rosenberg's played by Meryl Streep and he's kind of suffering is a national treasure and her spirit comes to talk to him. It's really profound. It's really good acting Just a little bit of a segue if you get a chance to check it out. So Roy Cohen was infamous in his own right. So he was really infamous for his role. During the McCarthy era the Red Scare Court theism McCarthyism. There were hearings after hearings. Were people were being targeted at accused of being communist specifically in Hollywood actors actresses probably what you would call like more liberal minded. Today were being blacklisted and labeled as Communist. Once you're blacklisted. That basically meant you could never work again. You're labelled as a communist sympathizer an active member of the party in. You didn't deserve to work again. And the big big people. Spearing that efforts were Roy. Cohn and Senator McCarthy from Wisconsin Wisconsin or at home was from New York. It's also suspected that Roy. Cohn was a closeted homosexual. He later went on to advise. Donald Trump. Our current President Rupert Murdoch the Right Fox News and he was also known as a fixer among the political realms. He was also known to be incredibly highly unethical lear on his life he being disbarred and he later succumbed to complications associated with AIDS whoever he did his best to hide this illness. And so again. If you have a chance to check out those in America please check it out. It really diced X. More of that dichotomy that he posed where he probably was a gay man but his outward presentation the way he treated other people was really horrific and the epitome of hypocrisy Ethel. Julius Rosenberg felt the brunt of whatever aggression he for. Some reason held against people who identified as communists and. That's not to say that they were innocent. Because I that definitely. Julius was involved in this whole scandal of recruiting his brother-in-law and connecting the dots for some of these people that were working at the Manhattan project. He definitely was not innocent. But it just for me. The contrast of the level of punishment that they receive versus the people who were key and instrumental impressing some of these secrets. Really Getting Away Scot Free and there was one documentary. I watch where they interviewed. Hall's wife and she still. She was still alive back now. No she is now but she said that he had a moment where he felt so guilty about what was happening to the Rosenbergs that he was determined to go turn himself in and like confessed to everything that he had done and she convinced him not to allow but he wanted to save at the most. He wanted to save Ethel's life because he felt like she was being treated unfairly and there was a huge backlash before all the McCarthyism and everything started to really take shape and grip the nation. There was a big backlash of public sentiment. That felt like Ethel should not have been executed and they were protesting in the streets. And all these things were happening to stop that from occurring and and they're even several petitions to the president himself at the time to turn back the execution order and he refused to do it. So it's just I think it's interesting. I am not saying that they were innocent because I don't think that they were but I do think that they were used as scapegoats. Yeah we buy Cohen and some of these other people to send a message that this wouldn't be tolerated anymore right. I think you're absolutely right. And there was also a lot of anti-semitism associated with scapegoating the rosenbergs. Like Eric said their level of culpability was probably less than other people..