Liam Cochran, Maine, Ketamine discussed on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory


Two four nine. And welcome back to coast to coast. We are here with Liam Cochran. His book is called miracle indicate we're talking about the dramatic rescue of the twelve youngsters from Thailand and the coach that were trapped for about two weeks in a cave in Thailand. So Liam so they're sending food in there. Do are they pumping air in there to do they need that? Or is the cave got sufficient amount of ear at that time. It did not know that was one of the things that really spit up the efforts and put some level of panic in the rescue efforts was one of the board an m made in and that detected that the the the oxygen in the air was going down, and it was getting towards dangerous levels. If it had dropped a few more percentage points, the balance between Aaron carbon monoxide would have tipped over and the team and the four tire rescuers who stayed with them for most of the time after they were found would have slowly gone to sleep and died in their. So this this is what really made the clock tick, even louder. It was that there was the with a full cost because heavy rains had been full costs for about the the tenth of July. So they had a few days to try and plan how to get the team out. But and I had a bit of a break in the weather to they did catch a bit of luck. But they knew that the heavy monsoon rains coming again. And it's like him again, they probably that was it that. Yes. That would have been. Riveted here in the United States day by day with this incredible story, and you know, people thought they're not gonna make it. They're gonna make it. A couple scenarios that people were coming up with to try to rescue them. You know, whether you would create some kind of tube-like system and kind of like slide them in under the water all the way through and stuff. But I mean, the was the cave was kind of wind e in we and it was pitch black in the water. Wasn't it? That's right. Yeah. It was pitch black obviously inside the cave. The the water was stood up with sediment. So for the divers they had virtually zero visibility on a good day. If no one had been tree before them. They might have had a few inches to see. So it was all done by over diving was done by hand. They felt they were along the the guideline, but you're right all of the options that they could be thought of we'll put on the table, and frankly, all of them were bad. They contemplated as you say some sort of inflatable shoop that was one of the Elon Musk suggestions, they did actually trial that canal nearby. But as soon as they'd spoken with some of the navy seals about just how shopping jagged some of the rocks are within the cave. They realized that would never work. They went to great the rescue is went to great if it's to try to drill an access hole using industrial drilling machinery that could several hundred meters through rock, they actually had just started that process when and drilled a few meters into the launch time when the boys were found, and they called it off. But that was only going to drill a hole about five inches in diameter. So it was never going to get the boys out, and it was still perhaps it could get some oxygen in water could be a lifeline to them. And of course, one of the other options perhaps the fight much favorable option for much of the rescue period was to simply white. And just trying to survive in there until the monsoon was caves. They tried to pump out the water right now. Pumping was going on the whole time humping started early. And it did not stop huge resources were put into that. And and that certainly made a difference from the entrance of the cave to what was it became known as as I can't three which is where I sort of afford operating base was set up for the rescuers and the divers beyond that it probably didn't make much difference. According to many of the hydrologist and experts that actually went in there. But it was it was it was a good effort. It was worth trying. Absolutely. I would assume the water kept coming in the more. They pumped out the more just kept coming in at some point. They got it under control. And it became a matter of you know, if it would write a bit. What are we go up an inch? But it would go down pretty soon. Right. They did control it without pumping. It could have been a disaster. So that was probably well worth it. Certainly now whose idea was it Liam to say we're going to put some oxygen masks on these kids, and we're going to get them out. Well, amongst the dodgers, you had to cave diving experience several of them always thought that was the only way it was going to happen. And the reason for that is it's a long difficult dives zero visibility. It's something that are recreational scuba dive would struggle with. It'd be a heck of an effort to pull it off. If you you know, if you had a few dollars under your belt for these young boys who could swim a bit, but really strongly and had never been scuba dog. And before it was just unthinkable that they could have a regulator in their mouths. They'd have a mosque over there is they could stay calm as pool service. And they've never done that before they weren't scuba divers. No, no, no, no experience like that. And and and frankly odd I think I would stay calm as an adult while while being dragged through that sort of terrifying situation, not knowing where you are. You can't see which way is up. You can't see anything is visibility. And that's the one thing about the scuba diving has a certified scuba diver in pitch black water. You don't know if you're going up or down? Correct. That's right. And so and that factored into some of the planning that they did to get the boys out. So the the first thing as you mentioned with these fooled by smart, and they they differ to the typical scuba moss, which are two paces a mosque and a and a regulator mouthpiece. Have between your lips? This is a single piece of plastic that goes over yours makes us feel around the whole face the full head down the side of the face around the Joel line and the silicon seals around there. Keep the water out and keeps them pressure in as the as the oxygen pumped something from a cylinder. That is considered an easier option for phenomena, and certainly for these boys who are going to be sedated. And in terms of what you were just saying about nine which way is up or down the other thing that they did was to put the oxygen. Cylinder the air cylinder. That would be connected. And to the boy, they will put that in front of him strap it to his front naughty back as you might imagine. And and then in addition, they put a lid waste on the front of that. And the idea was something went wrong, and somehow the the rescue diver, and the boy became a separated Yati was boy would sink down to the bottom of the cave. Hopefully, still face down. I really still breathing and remain that way down by that tank by that lead, wait until he's rescued. I bet could feel his way around and the doctors and try. The kid would panic by that time. Well, the kid would have no idea. That's what we're going to get into. But one quick question. Liam how long did it? Take to get from the entrance to the cave toward the boys were underwater with the diver. How long did it take the diver to make that trip? I took them walking diving whiting took about six hours to get in about five hours to get out helped along a little bit. By the flow of the water. Are are you saying they had to they had to swim for five hours? The water was too strong and most hostile swim. They were mostly pulling themselves along the guideline for five hours at took correct to go from point a to beat way to get out of the cave would take five hours. Correct. Oh my God. I thought it was just a matter of a half hour or something like that. No, it was it was a huge undertaking is how would you have enough oxygen? Well, as as you would know that that's that's the on what you could do on eight hundred two tanks, even three tanks that they were taking in. So each of the divers had three straight three tanks strapped to them, and they positioned spare tanks along the way to to replenish supplies. How could they find them? They had systems worked out they had different spots that had been sort of marked that they knew it. I would be I had a system of mocking the tanks with different colors, which ones were full and empty at some points in the rescue. They had like Kim lots those sort of blowing the dock low sixties snapping they they come to life. They had those attached to the tanks would let them up in green Allred for for twelve hours. So the divers would know which thanks had Aaron them and which were empty now. The ordeal, of course, will be how do you give a kid who doesn't know how to be a scuba diver who can't breathe who's never had a mask on most of them? How do you get him for five hours to breathe this tank without panicking going crazy and getting him out with the diver? And of course, this is where your story in your book has made it all around the world. It's all over the the media today that these kids were sedated tell us about that. That's right. The sedation of the boys was something that was absolutely necessary for this. It just couldn't have happened. Otherwise, they would have woken up would have panicked along the way and put their own lives in danger and possibly rescue diver as well. So a decision was made at the time very secretly for an Australian anesthesiologist who is also an expert cave. Diver one of only two people in the world who has that skill set went in and. Put the boys to sleep using a powerful. Sedative cold kidding me? He also gave them a couple of other things to help that process. So before the kid of Maine was injected into the boy's leg. He was given a an anti anxiety drug a business by the brand name Xanax that would come him down woke him down to the water's edge. Boy would sit in Dr Harry, Dr Richard Harris, his lap and talk to Harry would give an injection into his leg of ketamine to put him to sleep an injection into his other leg of an anti saliva agent. So that while he was unconscious. He wouldn't rule into the mosque and therefore create another drowning hesitant suffocate. So are you saying that they pull these kids through for five hours? And they were knocked out. They were knocked out. None of the boys. Remember, anything factual of the of the escape at all. But one of the most kind of hot stuffing things, I think all the rescue and of the sedation process was that the the rescue was gonna take ours is gonna take about three hours to get the camp three which is sort of where all the diving diving part of it and during that process, the the kid of Maine would only last for about an hour. So each of the boys would have to be reduced. So each of the the the British recovery divers, the the dog is actually took one boy H and one of the time dot out each of those expert divers had a little pouch with a preloaded syringe of kid a main separate from its needle and at various stages they had to readmits to that. And most of the time this was done at various stations that was set up and there were other dive instructors had volunteered to be there to help them. But on at least one occasion with Jason Melanson. He's boy what com floor in the water. Well, they in a part of the tunnel tunnel, which had no money banks on the side. So he was forced to just hold. The boy is best. He could fumble around with these other hand to get these reloaded ketamine syringes out and try and reate minister that through the wet suit. And he describes it either very comment. He's a he's a stiff upper lip. British guy he doesn't so the site too, much or exaggerate anything. And he said, it was a it was a pretty nervous my with syringes and wrap is floating around in the water and the doctor Donald these divers were heroes..

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