The Self-Interested Case for Examining Your Biases


John wouldn't thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate it good to be with you dan. Thanks for having me. So i've listened to two of the big series you've done seeing white and also meant. They were hugely influential for me. And i think incredibly well so really. It's a pleasure to talk to you thank you. It means a lot to hear that from you. So let's start with saying white. It seems to me that. The i really related to the conceit. As you're setting it up at you know both of us our journalists and you were describing your time as a journalist covering the issue of race you always considered it to be turning the lens on or handing. The mike to people of color never thinking that to have a race and so the whole idea if i understand it correctly and hopefully you will correct me. Here was to take a look at white people. Do i have that right. Yeah as i say. In the first episode of that series as journalists i think we think white journalists. And that's okay that's most journalists right as white people. We think that we're covering race when we're reporting on folks collar. And that's kind of the concede usually is that reporting about races pointing your microphone in your camera and your gaze at communities of color when in fact race and racism were invented by people who look like you and me and so why are we not pointing our cameras and our microphones and our gaze at white people when we're reporting on racism and let's be clear we're not just for you know. Use the word racism and white supremacy. Which is what we're talking about. So yeah that is. The kind of the fundamental move that i tried to make in framing that whole series was to say we're gonna look at race through the frame of this idea even the idea. Where did the idea come from that. There are some people that were gonna define as being white and of course that goes hand in hand with the idea that there are black people in than than the other kinds of racial groups kind of got filled in later by some odd notions of racial science. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Perhaps

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