Developer, Twitter, Engineer discussed on Hanselminutes
Com. Slash parallels studio x, e. So you know, you're, you know, you're some somewhat senior, but you call yourself an intermediate developer him. How long have you been in developing Helen learned for fifteen years ago. Okay. So do you feel like there's a special place for like that ten fifteen year? Intermediate developer learning where we want to learn more a certain way? I think that, like I feel like there's so much material for beginners right now. Like if you want to programming language, there's like learn python the hard way, right? Which I've heard really good things that and they're so little material. I think for for intermediate to lake, maybe advanced developers. I this really sort of formative experience five years ago where someone told me ashtrays, which is this tool that traces system calls on the necks, and I didn't know will add it know that there's some calls existed, like I didn't know how her talk to the operating system at all, and I didn't know that you could trace them with Australia's. I think at that point I've been. Driving for ten years, and I kind of like angry almost like I was like, why didn't you tell you before? Like, where was I supposed to learn this? And I realized that for a lot of things are sort of no way like I mean, of course, someone could have told me, right? Like it's possible that I guess I could've met someone told anybody, but I didn't. Right. So I was like, wait, how am I supposed to learn these straight? Like? How are we supposed to learn new things that are pretty fundamental, right? But with lake system calls her how your program talks to operate system is like a pretty fundamental active at how computers work. And of course like exhibit, oh, we'll Julia. You should have taken the operating system slauson university instead of not taking it right. But like university classes are not. I big are like the solutions like ongoing developer education. Like once he graduated from university will have learned some things, but like no matter what university went to, you're still going have not learned some important, fundamental things anyway, enter will. How do you how, how does it happen that you learn this thing. Right? Well, like I was talking to my to my spouse couple of days ago and it turns out that she doesn't know how to change her oil. Now, here's a person who's been driving for twenty years. Right? I could. So she's a senior driving engineer? Yeah. Who am I to say? How do you not know how to change your oil like? But that seems to be the way the community approaches, stuff like that. Like how do you not know that she also doesn't know how to drive a stick shift, right? I could lose my mind and and like, I don't know, stick shift to shame her for not knowing how to drive a stick, but at the same time shouldn't I be happy that automatic shift cars work and they work great so much so that she doesn't need to to know that. So then the question is, as intermediate developer, what am I supposed to knowing what's a waste like, do I need to know how to change my own oil? Or do I just hire someone to do that? Yeah, right. So it's like, how do you figure out what what you do need to know? And like once you decide you wanna know those things like, what are the resources you're going to use? Learn that. Yeah. Yeah. There's like you wouldn't go and find python for intermediate people. There's not like that book doesn't exist. Yeah. And I think I was reading the sequel programming book a little bit because I wanted to learn a little bit of staple spots and it was like, oh, here's what a variable is, and I was like, I can't what I what is this book? I, I'm not reading this right. Look. I'm not reading several. Explain to what a function is for ten pages. Like I wanna learn what I need to know about people's plus to someone who knows like these like eight other programming languages already, but I don't know, see straight like there. There listed like tricky things, people that are really surprising a someone coming from another language. But yeah, I don't know. I was like, this is really hard. It all shows where like I learned that I was mispronouncing word for the last forty years of my life. Like yesterday. Now my wife is not, you know, she's like. How did you make this far? So if that's happening to me as a native English speaker, like imagine how much computer science or software engineering that I've gotten wrong that I'm like walking around thinking I know ex and it's actually why it's gonna blow my mind and there's not only like, where do I go to learn it and learn to fix that. But also like as a community, we should be able to be public and become to, oh, I never learned how to do that. Right. But if you told someone you didn't into to a bubble sort, you lose your job. Yeah, doesn't trusting. You know, I feel we should be more kind of supportive of people in their learning and I always appreciate you on on Twitter because I know you are no, what you're talking about. It's clear in your writing. You have a great blog and mediums in all of your or fantastic. But at the same time I feel like you're very enthusiastic about learning stuff, and I wonder if people are ever like, oh, you should have known that Juliette. How did you get this far? I hate it when people do that kind of stuff. 'cause I'm always learning new hot keys and new Cisco. Yeah, I guess so. I think I didn't. I've spent a lot of time getting better at learning. I think it's really exciting to complete questions of things that I don't know. To me, it's exciting new things right? Like it's not exciting to say that like, oh, I know everything already. 'cause like launcher I'm also it's pretty boring. Like if I knew everything in programming of it, probably quit. Like, I don't know. Awful. I, I would much rather be learning you things. And so like I think the idea that it's like even desirable to know everything is something that I don't believe. And like I mean, sometimes like maybe someone a hacker Neal's, you'll be like, oh, I can't believe he didn't know like such. Hacker news accent. It, it's it's just kind of silly, right? Like I mean, like a lot of people don't know a lot of things and it's like an exciting opportunity to learn that thing. Right? You're like, oh, great. Today's the day that. Today's the day that I guess losing the thing. That's fine. Exactly. And that's, that's the way we all should be. You know, we should be positive about that stuff in because not everyone has like we may all have ten or fifteen years experience, but not everyone has the same years. Yeah, we're doing different stuff. What were you doing before you were an infrastructure engineer? I day machine learning. A machine learning to doing instructor engineering two years ago. Oh, wow. But like like machine learning is the new hotness that everyone is talking about, so you're doing it before? It was the hotness. Well, think it was. It was. It was also the hottest two years ago. I don't know. I don't have a sense of my mind like when machine started being amazing. Cool for for a minute. My bad my bed. So you also do a lot of open source and you actually took a sabbatical from work to write a profiler. How did you do that? I actually sort of don't do a lot of I took a sabbatical from work to open source for three months, but the reason I did that was I don't do in my spare time at all. Really. That's helping yet. Well, I do a lot of like writing mice very time. So if I also programmed in my spare time, in addition, it would. I think it would not be healthy. I think retail much, but yeah. So I this Rottweiler I want to write and I was like, well, I wanted this programming project and it realistically speaking, I'm not gonna did in my spare time. I'm so I applied for a fellowship and they gave you the fellowship, and then I took three months off work ends. Wow. Was that stressful knows? Great. That's it's amazing. I must be. That's the thing the only Canadians could do because I don't know if I could get healthcare if I took a three months off work. Oh, yeah, that's true. I, I don't know about that. I think someone else you get healthcare, here's tobacco and I was like, I have no idea. I didn't think about that at all. Yeah, it's another whole podcast right there. It was like, oh my goodness, three months about go to work on like something I want to work on, that would be amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I just asked my met manager permission like six months in advance. Oh, really? Okay. So you like paused your job? Yeah, came back to the same job. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's amazing. That's amazing. So you made a RB's spy and people can go and Google for our respond or go to arby's by. Get up dot IO. Have other people gotten involved with this profiler because it it's got lots of lots of forks and stars, but are people you get hit indignant p using it? Yeah, they've told one person left this relate delight book comment, but maybe happy where they set that they'd had this really bad performance relevant in the review program, and they used every si- and then they found it was wrong right away and they fixed it and their boss up. They were genius, which is exactly become a wizard programmer. Like they've done it exactly what you told them. They could do. Yeah. With what you want. I feel like it's like it's exciting to build tools that tell people like it'd be better and like feel like, I don't know. You want to feel like they can do anything and it was it, was it a problem had existed before, like wizar-? Is there just no good profiling for ruby right now? Are there is a good profiler, but doesn't work the same way that are b by the way, RV's fireworks is you can dislike attach it to any running reprogram on no matter what and the other providers that already existed. You kind of like at your program source code. And so being able to just like poke it, something that's already running, be locate. What are you doing? Was something that wasn't possible before. That's cool. And I understand that it's a sampling profiler, so you can actually run it like in production without fear? Yeah, that's right. That's pretty sweet. And are you continuing work on it or do you have you developed a community team around it, or is it just you? It's mostly just me. I'm still working on it a little bit, and I understand what you're trying to do. Some flame graphs as well, like bit it produces like information that you can then use to visualize. Yeah, yes. It produces visualizations by default on which was in early important design decision. I made actually because I think like. A lot of profiler will require issue like extra work to get visuals, Asian, and I thought, well, it doesn't really work for people because I think people who are profiling usually like if they're doing profiling, they probably haven't done it for like two years. Right? Like they've just cited. Okay. Today is the day that I'm gonna do profiling. I don't know how to do this. What's going on. I'm so you really like wanna give them like you wanna make the experiences, easy, famous fossil because profiling frequently. Right. So I thought it was really important to create the visualization by default, and people have said, they're like, oh, wow, I didn't know that you could make this kind of visuals, Asian. And so I think they went to go do it themselves because they didn't know that existed rate. Yeah. Like if you have to go into a bunch of setup just because you wanna ask like answering ask a question than we bother doing it. So the flame graft comes out of the box. Yeah, that's cool. Awesome. And that you did that in just a in three months, had you been working at before? Or did you do it all beginning to end the three months I built the prototype before. Awesome. Aren't. So I kind of had an idea. It was possible, which is what kind of gave you the confidence to actually take the runoff work toward on it rain. And did the did the grant like, do you have to then go to the grant people and say, look, I did a thing. Yeah. I mean, I said, like, I think I, I've been blogging about it, so they obviously knew that working on it. And so I think at the end of New England as a k. added the thing key, send me the money. It was. It was pretty simple. They're, they're, they're really great to work with. That's awesome that that's that's really cool. I, I didn't even realize that one could ask for grant and get it and do something like that. And that's inspirational to know that you can do that. Yeah. Yeah. The program was called the segment of fellowship business analytics company called segment that ran it very cool. So people can check out your genes. Should they just go to JV and s. dot CA or is there a better homepage for your genes? Yeah, they can go there. Cool. So you can just Google for Julia Evans means you're everywhere and follow you on Twitter and you're kind of working on comics all the time, and I follow you on Twitter and see those things go by and RBIs by of course, is Rb spied get Hup dot IO. Thanks so much for chatting with me today. Thanks to me. This has been another episode of Hansel minutes and we'll see you again next week.