Ukraine, Soviet Union and United States discussed on 1947: The Meet the Press Podcast


I would say. Most of your adult life dealing with the Russians as adversaries. Perhaps it was a small small period where they're sort of convenient allies in the moment right after nine eleven, perhaps things like that. Why is it so difficult to continue to convince so many people that the Russians are capable of undermining our democracy? Well, I think for one thing. We sorta got caught up in the. Maybe a bit of our arrogance when the Soviet Union collapsed and the wall fell down and for some period after that, what you know emerged in Russia was a shadow of its former self as a Soviet Union by the way we as if we won, we treated that as not just that we won, but that our our point of view one. Well, they wasn't just that this'll even the Russians have figured out, capitalism is king, we win. This is the west versus the east. This is democracy over communism. This was capitalism over socialism, whatever. You want to measure measure it. So as a, it was a victory and we took a lot of victory laps after that. And there are those of assert that had we handle that more stupidly in, we might not have ended up with Russia as anathema to us. I think the big difference though is Putin himself whom I've always considered a throwback, not to the Soviet era, but rather the SARS and has this grand vision of Russia's greatness and a very expansive definition of who Russian is, and he has very, very strong personal animus towards the United States and what we stand for, and he characterized the collapse of the Soviet Union as the greatest geopolitical zaslov, the twentieth century. So he is not a friend of of the United States, and I think he personally very determined to do what he could to undermine this country in what a sense for I want to actually. Pursue his that analysis that he makes his. There's actually part of it that I don't disagree with, but I would probably were too differently than he did. And I would say this, is it. We have not. We'd never. We never finished the, we didn't re- we didn't help re order the world. There was a new world order, we thought, but we just sort of let it happen. We didn't sort of do more. We allowed this g we allowed this to look like a geo political vacuum. I guess there's probably again, he's doing it from a warped perspective, but he's not wrong. It did leave a vacuum that perhaps allowed him to fill it. Well, I think he did and he, he, I think, struck very responsive chords with his own people. He was a symbol of in the hope of restoring Russia's greatness. And again had this grand vision of Russia, which included Ukraine as as which they referred to as little Russia, which could not they're far out of the orb so that and I do think though the and perhaps it was just post Cold War exhaustion that we didn't pick up with equal energy and equal determination how to manage that new world order. I've always wanted understand how why did the eltsin pick him 'cause pudding was kind of plucked it was. And if you consider his his background, which think some people have tendency forget is you know, KGB right, professional intelligence officer, and that's the way he I. I argue that's what he approaches things McCain's line. He goes. He saying the soul, all I See's KGB right? When I look into his soul, he or look into his eyes. Yeah, exactly. And you know, we're going to have. At least six more years of him of someone who's very, very anti-american, very suspicious of the United States. How

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