Kevin Brown, Officer, Dan Hills discussed on Scott Sloan


All right. Scott flown back with you here on NewsRadio. Seven hundred wwl w thank you for all the condolences of the passing of my mom, and it's always good to get back into routine sense, normalcy at this point, and the normal seeing Cincinnati, as always rather add normal. Remember the Cincinnati cop who last winter tasers an eleven year old girl believe she was eleven years old. And she was stealing from the spring grove Kroger. Now when you're a little kid, of course. I won't say we've all done it, but, but many, many children have tested thorny, and seeing something going. I don't have any money, but I'm gonna take that doesn't mean that you're going to be a career criminal or arch. And along those lines of the kids do, and she had a backpack full of merchandise while she was caught by the police officer in this case officer, Kevin Brown. She was ordered by officer Brown's security guard. I work in detail on. Okay, stop. All right. I'm look through the backpack. She got scared and ran. He's yelling stop. Stop stop. He pulls out the taser and hits her. As a result, he was suspended for something like a week without pay. Well, we've now learned in the interim here after great interpretation and Goshi aviation. There was no excessive use of force us boxer Brown by taking the eleven year old girl because he was in one hundred percent complete accordance with Cincinnati police department regulations in that as her according to the manual before it was rewritten could be used on someone between the ages of. Seven and seventy which is probably more of a guideline. But even the policy itself said, yeah, it's pretty much. Okay. To use everybody. Joining me on the show this morning on the acute hearing centers dot com hotline, Dan hills who is the president of the Cincinnati f o p lodge. Joining me here on seven hundred w Daniel, my brother. Are you this morning? In america. I'm I'm stopping the pick up the special dog food stops kidney stones with my dog. It's a great country where you can make sure your dog doesn't, don't you love the don't you love the fact that our dogs are taking better care of than the people who are in charge of the dogs, you don't have a special diet, you know, special food. You probably eat a lot of fast food, and junk like the rest of us doing yet, where they're buying freshly freshly cooked food for dogs and pampering, our dog special bottle dog water. Doggy daycare, my dogs are going to doggy, daycare, data get groomed, and everything my dogs get better treatment, and I do I agree with you one hundred percent at that was our but it makes money move around and. Here in America. And this way, Lucy doesn't people at match what that's important. Kingwood is not a good thing for anybody whether it's manner canine or feline for that matter and Dan, let's talk about officer Kevin Brown here for a sec. So we have this conversations. I recall vividly when when this whole thing happened. I said, you know, the idea of changing an eleven year old girl is uncomfortable for most people, and yet it happened, but it happened with in full accordance of what the rules, ours, you pointed out saying, what it says in the employee manual basically used to take your policy says ages, seven to seventy and yet they still suspended Brown for seven weeks. The question is, why if it's there in the manual as we said, it's like, okay then change the policy. But how do you punish someone for doing something that's in complete accordance with company policy? I can tell you simply came down to people salt and said, they just didn't like it. They didn't like the way. It looked name all wrong. The media grabbed it politicians reacted to it. But there's nothing you know, in case all that, that pointed to be in way out of bounds and there was, I absolutely nothing procedure that said it was at about they just didn't like it. And that's not a reason to suspend Kevin was suspended. Its police power is unable to work any extra duty special details that he had, you know, like many officers depended on for extra income or is and everything else. And he was given a ficials suspension, after many months of unofficial suspension of seven days. And while we could not arbitrator, grieve, the, the unofficial suspension thousands of dollars that cost him we were able to read the, the seven day suspension for excessive use. Yeah. Look at this thing too. I think the problem most people have is this is eleven year old girl and eleven year old girls eleven year old boys for that manner as low as maybe some seventy year old men and women can be particularly aggressive. And if you don't think an eleven year old can hurt you. They most certainly can but, but in this case, the girl had a backpack on, and she was in fear. And she was fleeing most people said, well, there's the problem I have he wasn't running at the officer attacking the officer. She's running away from the officer. How does USA force apply in a case like that? Well, this particular disturbing in the argument to the city, they kept bringing up Graham v Qatar, which is the most important case when it comes to use the force and they kept talking about the fact that she was young and small and Nassir Brown, it should have never even a fear author Brown. Never once stated he was afraid of the suspect, simply trying to stop. And the grand decision doesn't say that you can't use force that, you can only use force when you're in fear of the beat on or shot or anything like that. Now you can only use deadly force in those cases. But we're talking about the use of the tasers, something that we were trained in as this is an alternative that should almost never result in death. And it's been used. Across the country. And I think there's maybe you know, less than a handful of cases where they said it resulted in a death, and for that matter and somebody in grand with them can potentially result in the deaths that we call them less less lethal. And, and in other words, it's almost impossible, especially for somebody young and healthy that result in anything at all. And in most cases, just like in this case, no injury other than the probes that entered a tiny little portion of her skin, which resulted in the treatment of a band, right? This is a very preferred method to stop somebody who's clean. And that's what the union was able to do in our attorneys did a great job of researching, and we brought in case after case after case that we didn't find an eleven year old per se. But we found I believe twelve year olds and tons of thirteen year olds fourteen year olds in a whole bunch of death cases where people were fleeing. So even if they. They were older or bigger Warton, fear of them. We are just trying to stop them, just like we were trying to stop her and the procedure said at the time it can be used from some ages seven to seventy. Now there's a new procedure that says, don't use on young children in minor offenses. Okay. Probably not the new policy and procedure policy and procedure is a new one and we can't hit the, the refresh button on Kevin Brown after, you know, he was just trying to you what he was saying, which is stop theft. Well, here's a couple of things. Dan hills on a Scott Sloan show this morning on seven hundred w w in the decision made the ruling from an independent arbitrator, by the way found, no excessive use of force boxer, Kevin Brown only taste at eleven year, old girl hit her with a taser. She was shoplifting at the spring, grove, Kroger gets his seven days a payback. But number one is the young child element of this. So, so we add something a policy this fairly clear ages, seven to seventeen we've now changed it to something about as clear as a pile of dog. Cramp. Don't show what the hell's a young child. Is it a four year old is it a twelve year old is the policy worse? Not better, your reaction. Craft anything to do with the. The dog. It's definitely more vague. And, and obviously, it's designed around this case saying we didn't like it. So this, I'm going to, you know, say in the future we, we don't want it. You know that's that's the chief of police. Right. And, and in the end, I think it's more of what does what does society, one out least department. We want our policemen to sit there and let anybody that could be considered young and. Offensive can be considered minor, do I guess, if we're hired as a detail we kind of fan there as long as people around us and there they go. And so, you know, I can see where a lot of a lot of society alliances. Let's say police are backing down again. But it's it's it's it's their rule by their rule book. It's the Union's responsibility to step out for police officers when we say, well, wait a second. The rule book violated the, the rule that I guess we now have that we just didn't like number two, Dan. Dan, real quick here. Is that foreign escapes me as if Kevin Brown's a big old guy? I mean he's he's big boy, he, I don't know what he goes to something. I'm sure but, but a lot of people said, well, don't tasers stopper, somehow, okay tackle if you do that. Now, it puts it miss the officer as well as a suspect in this case, the eleven year old girl. What are the optics of a I don't know, a two hundred and thirty two hundred forty pound man tackling a little eleven year old girl who has some stuff in her backpack from Kroger in Furthermore, when it comes to safety because people said, well, you, if you take her that she could have died fortunately, she didn't. It's very rare that people do, but they do it young man at the university of Cincinnati, that happened ham, right? Not too long ago. But if you're if you outweigh someone by probably more than double safe to say in Brown tackles her she's got the way to the backpack. She comes down hits her head. She could suffer irreversible brain damage spinal cord injury. Things like that, which were far worse than the outcomes that could have been the greater risk is suggesting that somehow it safer for officer Brown tackler cop, the tackle eleven year old rather than Tatum. That's silly. There's no doubt about it again. We have to define something we have to talk about the miniscule occurrences of something like you talked about miniscule occurrences of death by by taking there's, I'm certain Lenny, more deaths, resulting from a physical struggles, though, the like you said an author that ways better than two hundred pounds going in tackling this young suspect would not have good optics and could potentially cause its own arm as is her running in the parking lot could cost. To arm because air she could have been hit by a couple of hundred pound man. But by a couple thousand pound people first before any of that, I, we have to assume that Kevin Brown catcher and there, I think is lease quite a bit of doubt, to, you know, I like him Brown working with him throughout this whole incident, and everything like that. But I think if we set up a charity foot rate. Would go about even and that's because right now I'm having a little trouble with some plain. It's still being. Fan. I'm not known for my speed. I'm known for a lot of things swift of foot is now one, but I see a picture cabinet. I go may be able to take him in a foot race. Three way. A charity. Cabinet probably laugh at that whole thing too. But, but at the same time, it's like, yeah, you know that's. Yeah. I, I look any. No, it's, it's a lot of armchair quarterback or armchair quarterbacks in making this out to be more than it is. But, you know, here's the thing, I think the big takeaway from this, Dan, is, this is the cowardice of those the administration and this is why you need a strong police union is because the reason they did that the looked at those same rulebook. We all did and said, okay, it says in their seven to seventy the girl's eleven by your own policy. She's allowed to be taste in everything fit the Bill for someone to be tasteless case regardless, if there are eleven if they're of twenty thirty forty fifty years old, the tasting was justified in this case, and that's why the independent arbitrated, and there's no excessive use of force because that's the policy, but because of the optics of this whole thing that it's a big two hundred plus pound guy, teasing a poor little eleven year old girl for just stealing some stuff from Kroger which I don't think is a high crime or misdemeanor for that, for that matter. I think you know, it's kids do those kind of things. From time to time. And it's things that remind them not to do it again. But that being said the problem was the leadership of the lack thereof again, in the Cincinnati that it was easier to go with the side and the wave of public opinion in throwing their officers under the bus to take away the sting of their responsibility crafting, regulations, which he followed. It's easier to throw Kevin Brown into the bus and go..

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