Andrew, EU, IVF discussed on Opening Arguments
Hello and welcome doping arguments arguments this episode three hundred and thirty four. I'm Donald Smith that's Andrew Torres. How're you doing Andrew? I am doing fantastic Thomas. We just Recorded episode thirty five of law. Awful movies we want the pilot of bluff city law. And and and you know they're all great right. All of our law awful movies I. I don't know I felt like there's a pretty good episode is great. It was fantastic. That show is every bit as bad as I wanted and morale. Aw God so much bad law so much. Andrew the lot of cursing actually also so much Andrew Bang his head on a wall. It was fantastic. Don't miss it go to Patriot dot com slash La hop on that it seriously. Those a lot of movies are a ton of fun. It's funny but it's also you learn a lot in the process about how bad had people are at writing law shows and movies and stuff and you and you are so good at like screenwriting right like you know take screenwriting so we come up with like between the two of us. We're like well we could have written a better. Oh Yeah we're really. Should we really got to get hey. NBC Call Us. We're here okay You know actually before we get going on to say one thing. Quickly we do shout out for vulgarity for charity and it was pointed out that we think we gave cognitive dissonance. A little bit of short shift on that Shrift I never know that sort of thing. Short Shrift Shrimp Shrimp. Sure if it's not as I said I was like what is when you get released early from Jack in the box short shrift. What is shrift do you ever every? Here's shrift used in any other context anyway. The shirt the shrift of what I'm trying to say is that we get far we Cognitive distance podcast is also You know they are not you know under the umbrella of puzzle thunderstorms I just want to give them a special shout Too because they are part of the vulgarity for charity and they do it along with the puzzle guys and see so call you and tell you I got. I got yelled at for a long time. Now I'm just just get no it's important. You know they. They are every bit as much a part of raising money for charity. And this is a great show. Great Show great sorry. Sorry that I said it's me this. I said puzzled thunderstorm. And that's that's on me. That's all right. Just WanNa give those guys tune into an upcoming cardis not true. It's coming but I'll be on and it was a lot of fun it'll be really funny. So Yeah Charlotte to those guys. We love him. Okay okay You have a quick Andrew was wrong I do have an injury was wrong. Only about eighty seven thousand people pointed out On the basis of last last Thursday and Fridays episodes that I called Gordon. Sandline the ambassador to Ukraine and he was of course the ambassador to the EU. Which makes it and I knew that? And Look. You know there's a lot of stuff going on But mea culpa on that and as you eighty seven thousand people have helpfully pointed out all right like Ukraine is not in the e U so it you know it just adds to the the the overall you know why. Why is Rick Perry here? Why is Rudy Giuliani here? And you could add that. You know why Gordon Somboon there so I was like the EU wants them right. I mean I think there. That's part of the like pro. Political process has been are they going is. UK Crane going to be cozier to Russia or kind of go along the EU route. So I mean yeah kind of makes sense as in the mix but yeah it is. It is weird. Yeah but he shouldn't be directing policy. Absolutely yeah we we can have some important things going on in the EU right now. So you know you'd think that would yeah. He doesn't have enough to do. You're saying with Brexit. Yeah so anyway I was definitely wrong on that. Sorry Breaking News. I literally as we recording this thirty seconds ago. I will not out the person but I got a A really really important text message that said while not confirmed it has been reported that Motley crue will be teaming up with DEF LEPPARD and poison for a monster concert toward next year. All right I thank you dog about my sharks then like I talk about your shirt off the worst team in hockey for no reason in and now they're on a nice five game win streak almost back to five hundred so there you go there. We've updated everybody on the important things. So let's say let's talk law here. We go what are we. What are we talking about today? We've got Some some more info and stuff to talk about regarding embryos and freezing stuff all that good stuff we got some actual scientists who wrote US in other people wrote us in who've gone through the process we got some stuff there and then our main segment we're going to be talking about something called lie heap. Keep that I've never heard of that Andrew's going to explain to us was In overton window shift of extraordinary proportions because this I I here was a was a Reagan initiative but now all of a sudden is probably being labeled as comedy liberal territory. I'm guessing that Yup okay cool so so that'll be fun nice uplifting and then the c segment is a wildcard. We'll see if we get to it. I don't know Andrew depends on how many Bullet Points Indra has and if he gets through the types. I'll be a wildcard segment. We'll see so that's our agenda for today. Why don't we get going? Yeah let's do it okay. Okay so where do you WANNA start on the human embryo stuff. Yeah a couple so this was really really happy about our discussion in an episode three thirty on the Connecticut decision regarding embryos I do want to bracket we occasionally Fell into some gendered language in that that episode and And I we both apologized for that. And we'll try and do better going forward. But as as part of the legal discussion we had a bunch of people right in in including a couple of scientists who work with early human embryonic development and a really great Letter that we got from a among that that underwent. IVF sent us a copy of her blank contract so she has some insight into the whole you know was this. Was this real consideration. When was it something that you bargained for? With respect to the check boxes and everything so I thought we would We take a look at some listener feedback for the a segment. I right yeah well when you have the smartest listeners in the world like we do that's good feedback all right and we're going to start with listener. Jonathan Golob who says yes good morning. IVF and pre embryos came up in three thirty. I may publish scientific authors specifically on early human embryonic development and I figured I could point you to some resources the define some of the basic biology Gilbert's developmental biology is the dominant text on early Mammalian development. IVF The F. generally saves fertilized embryos at the blastocyst stage. Although with advancing ivy tech is now possible to freeze back unfertilised eggs and sometimes sometimes freezing can occur. It's at a slightly earlier stage. A blast assist is like a beach ball with a teeny beanbag or inner cell mass inside at the bottom autom. The outer encasement of cells can become all of the supporting structure of a pregnancy the amniotic sac placenta etc.. The inner cell mass can go on to to make all of the tissues of a human being the blastocyst stage is where the pre embryo waits until implantation occurs at sometimes does not before proceeding hence a good time to try to freeze now and then thought later just before implant. The blasts stage has a few interesting attributes. A last assist is not an individual so if the blast assist is a whole splits or the inner cell mass splits into two two beanbags instead of one identical twins result this is more likely likely to happen in. IVF compared to natural pregnancies in quotes many perhaps most blasted failed to develop into a live birth in both IVF or natural natural pregnancy and the inner cell mass cells from discarded embryos can be turned into embryonic stem cells. These cells can be expanded and retain change the ability to become any cell type in the body this allows for experimental therapy such as repairing hearts after heart attacks thus this is a possible disposition of leftover frozen embryos no longer needed for reproduction. Hope this is useful Jonathan. Yeah well that's a nice biology lesson there for sure. A lot OUGHTA stuff. I didn't know there actually just being bags didn't know well ended and it Answers starts starts to answer the the pre-embryo question right that I asked as to as to why the court seized on that. And again if you're thinking about this in the context of off the abortion discussion learning that the IVF blastocyst contain both sort of the material. That could make one or more human beings as well as the material. That makes the amniotic sac the placenta. Everything else all early in one mass right like I. I thought that the you know the mean bag with the beach ball around it. I thought that was that was super helpful in understanding the science as that sort of plays in with the The law and the politics of this and and it totally makes sense as to why the court used that phrase pre embryo at at At this point even though and and let her. I'm GonNa read from Valerie. Smith I think speaks to why it it sort of stuck out at me and that is that in. Ivf and I told you. I had some firsthand experience with this. The terminology that's generally used is embryo. Right Pre embryo and and Valerie speaks to that so so let me So let me go to to to Valerie's email So she like I said she attached a blank version of for contract which we're going to attach in the show notes and this really speaks to the question that the Connecticut Supreme Court you know overruled overruled the trial court on and said No. This is the fact that they're check boxes does not mean that. It's not a valid contract not valid consideration and and And that's that's really where we're Valerie comes out in her discussion of this. So she says regarding the contract for IVF patients attached to blank. I my contract that my husband and I had to fill out and have notarized before we could start the process Our clinic offered more options than the four listed in today's episode such as donate to scientific research and donate donate towards clinical quality control and training. I personally appreciated the simplicity of the check box system and found that in no way did it made make the contract less official official so that was interesting and say I'm an IVF regarding the process of IVF and how we get from the initial fertilized IVF to a frozen embryo. There are several things that extreme pro-lifers might take issue with I a little bit of nomenclature. What's frozen isn't an embryo blastocyst and we just heard the science on and A blastocyst only becomes an embryo wants the amniotic sac develops at approximately week five of pregnancy. I don't know why in the I've contract world blast assists called embryos the procedure to transfer a blast assists into a woman's uterus is even called an embryo transfer which makes no sense. Aw also a frozen blastocyst definitely contains more than one cell. I do understand the point. Andrew was making this so that's another injury was wrong makeup on that one Secondly not all fertilized eggs. Make it to freeze the day following my egg retrieval procedure. I got a call from a fertility clinic telling me that I it was one of the lucky ones and that all eighteen of.