Russia, Putin, Naomi Klein discussed on Thom Hartmann


Less popular school of thought sees Russia under Putin as well we can declining power the book the Russia trap. or or. this is the Thom Hartmann program welcome back to American here with you and in the studio with me which is like super cool is Naomi Klein she has a new book out on fire the burning case for green new deal tonight she and I will be at work you will principally be I'll be kinda am scene I guess the thing tonight at Powell's books in in Beaverton and then from there and that's today's Wednesday tomorrow Thursday you're gonna be in Oakland at the first congregational church Friday you're gonna be in San Matteo Saturday you're gonna be in Chico California I have done these kinds of bookstores in fact I did one just died three months ago for for my book on guns and boy it it just runs a ragged I I wish you the very best on. thanks thanks for joining us it's great to be with you Tom and Naomi Klein dot org by the way if you want to get tickets are you get more interest in information on this you have a list yeah there you go you're traveling less these days so it's so it's fun I haven't been I haven't done a west coast speaking tour in awhile it's nice to be back I'm glad you can act with folks I'm glad yeah you and I've talked to over the years about a variety of things from capitalism to climate and in your book brings a lot of this stuff together you know from weather was no longer our shock doctrine or this changes everything you know so it just brilliant brilliant writing that you do what's what's the principal message of on fire. well I think the most important thing to understand about the moment where at is that we are living a time of three fires we've got the climate fires the the whether it's in the Pacific Northwest every summer these seasons of smoke we're seeing wild fires yeah in the arctic Siberia places where you're not supposed to have wild fires as grace gratitude Burke says our house is on fire and we've known this for a long time but that's not the only kind of fires we are faced with facing we also have that political fires of the of the far right that increasingly our building political power by creating this it in group the protected the in group and that all of these out group others and petting the in group against the out group give me an examiner. here in the United States it's obvious with trump and and the the the specter of the invading army of immigrants but you know he's been prowling around with moody lately and mode he does the same thing with the in group of Hindus the out groups of Muslims we see a similar MO with a lot of these figures and that's a militarization of whole of of borders mass incarceration of these outgroup others it keeps people fighting with each other and it keeps them freed to plunder and boasts an arrow is doing the same thing in Brazil and they there is an outright war on truth on faxed him boss and are just addressed the United Nations and said the Amazon wasn't on fire actually it's just a big misinformation campaign I think there's a connection between the sort of that the rise of the far right and the fact that we are in this moment where climate the climate crisis is no longer a future crisis we're living at work in it I think people understand that we are now in an era where where more and more people are going to be on the move looking for safety looking to share their remaining habitable places on our planet and I think that's why we're seeing ace eight a resurgence of ideologies that just explicitly rank human life these people are better than those people and if that's true well then it's okay to let them drown to let them die to lock them up indefinitely and we're seeing this we're seeing in the Mediterranean here we're seeing your we're seeing it with the Australian government with their off shore and migration detention camps so. there is a third fire as well which is the fire is out of this growing climate justice movement and we just saw it burn pretty brightly on Monday with four million people around the world participating in these use organized crime it strikes but not just young people adults joining different sectors joining like tech workers and so it's kind of a race against time because we have a little bit more than a decade to cut global emissions in half if we are going to preserve you know anything like a a habitable planet so yeah that's I guess the message of my book is that that third fire the fire of our movements has to has to be powerful enough to take on the fires of the far right and I really think it's a green new deal that is our ticket for building that kind of broad movement that broad coalition and and I want to get to that in just a moment but the it here in the United States were actually seen climate refugees on our southern border I mean I was I was. yeah I'd read this stuff but then NBC went down to Guatemala and tracked back into some of these remote parts of Guatemala that a lot of these refugees are coming from and found literally places where people were starving to death because they're in the fifth year of a drought and there's literally no food that eating grass and tree marks and things and and this is the source of many of these people who are on our southern border the Donald Trump is throwing their children's in jail and and and in a passing out billions of dollars to his buddies in the private prison industry even as he cuts hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Central America much of which was going to help farmers who are dealing with drought way and none of this is ever talked about in the context of climate change you know and I think they're very conscious of it though because if you look at what the trump administration has done with its immigration policy one of the first things they they did is take aim at TPS temporary protected status right purse for Haitian patience than for Salvadorans to these are millions of people who are in the United States under a program that provides status temporary status to people who are displaced by an ex some sort of extreme event in their countries the other is a refuge yes refugees but specifically people refugees from and when it lifts the good that the it lists the basis on which you can get temporary protected status can be worn by eight which is true for for for other ways of getting at refugees status but it specifically lists natural disasters and that's very significant because climate refugees you know we're talking about them the climate refugees actually don't exist under international law there is no such thing as a as a climate refugee under international refugee law it's dated because that it because our convention in before climate. from an earthquake well you actually can't. refugees from warns him at you know human you can get refugee status for because of human rights abuses but not because of natural disasters but TPS with an exception EPS like people from there if people from Haiti in the United States got T. P. S. because of the earthquake in Haiti and so they they have really understood that this is a loophole yes it's a loop Amy in the administration that allows people to get status because of natural disasters earthquakes aren't connected to climate change but super storms are and we just saw with the the the Bahamas that people are being refused entry to the United States and trump is calling them drug dealers you know in the aftermath of a cat category five hurricane right so I think they absolutely understand that that that that more and more people are going to be seeking haven because of the climate crisis and this is their climate change adaptation. their plan is is for the for testing of the borders and it's it's getting more and more explicit as much as anybody I know you're a citizen of the world he yeah I'm curious your thoughts on this whole impeachment fall overall here the the the and and and this transcript that you know I we've been talking about the last hour the the whistle blowers how the world views yes how should be viewing this Frank I mean well first of all I think it's a very good thing that finally. hi Nancy Pelosi has decided that enough is enough and at and has begun impeachment proceedings I think you could have it could could be gone before I'm glad it's happening now I'm glad it's and and I do think that it even though we know that the Senate is not going to. impeach him this will hurt him despite their bravado it's going to help our reelection is not I don't think it's gonna help and I think anything that keeps trump from getting a second term is incredibly important his what.

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