Sacha Robin, Dr Sacha, David Brazier discussed on Everyday Buddhism: Making Everyday Better
To the share the fourth in a series of episodes talking with the buddhist teachers that nat only educated me in the dharma but shaped my life for the better. One of my first teacher said everyone is your teacher because everyone is a buddha and that is true but but there are some teachers who come into your life and have a major influence on you. I'm thrilled to have another one of my teachers reverend sacha robin a priest in the immediate order joining me for this episode where we talk about how the whole of messy humanity is met by the divine when we relax our sense of control and know that life accepts us just as we are those are such as beautiful words. I know you'll delight in sach is gorgeous descriptive ways of communicating the heart heart and soul of spiritual practice buddhism pure land buddhism refuge and yes the f. word faith so here we are at episode twenty five of every day buddhism making every day better and the fourth in a series stories of episodes where i will talk with my teachers teachers that helped shape. My life is a buddhist practitioner and a better person. I think like greg creature couple the episodes ago. I may be your surprising to hear that i she. I consider her a teacher. <hes> never told her point blank but maybe hinted around a few times uh-huh <hes> so in this episode. I am talking with such a robin. Sacha is a shortened version of her full buddhist name name such vanni which means eloquent communicator of the truth. I just found that out today and researching you <hes> i i sliver chilly met sanchez a student of david brazier sense as books and teachings and as a student of the vowel twenty two who program through the immed- academy of zen therapy <hes> and as a friend of the immed- order. I don't even know about twenty two still exists but there you go hooks up plug <hes> i went on to explore her small stones writing programs and learned so much from her as has not just a buddhist teacher but a writer <hes> a writer who helps you stop and look at things around you and turn that into a buddhist practice and i found that her buddhist name eloquent communicator of the truth to be spot on actually were just talking about that in our little chat prior <hes> <hes> where she can be painfully honest in a writing and i think you will enjoy that uh sacha is for people who don't know who you are. Dr sacha is a buddhist priest to runs a pure land buddhist temple associated with the amita order in malvern in the u._k. And she runs it with her husband kosta. She's also a psychotherapist in private practice and a successful author of both fiction action and nonfiction. I don't know how she does it all but she and her husband cast but also used to run writing our way home offering mindful writing courses i. I don't think they do that anymore but it was one of the things that i so enjoyed <hes> but i have a sneaking suspicion if you ask a a sacha who she is. I suspect her answer would be that. She's an ordinary person. In fact she would probably answer that she she isn't an ordinary fullish person so in the introduction to her latest and just-released book plug unplug plug coming home refuge in pure land buddhism she puts it this way quote. I am an ever shifting mixture sure of light and dark deluded an enlightened and i know that i am acceptable. Just as i am and that you you are also a mix of awful and wonderful and you are also illuminated by the light of love so i think that from sake is a wonderful way to introduce both her and pure land would assume so welcome statue and thank such thank you for joining me and he say why judgements <unk> wonderful introduction. I can't say anything that's fat now. We're gonna we're gonna have a lot of time mm to fill them up. I'm going to ask a couple of questions and then you're up so are so how would you answer the question who who are you. I just did it for through the words of you. Are yours your own things over a buddhist priest writing a temple a psychotherapist an author people who don't know i know her as a facebook friend i know she also looks after a vegetable garden and cats and bunnies end soon soon to be a new puppy so i think she's in for so who are you. Sacha yeah start with a small question. They don't do anything easy so yes. It's an interesting question. Isn't that <hes>. I think that they're all scenes in the various things that i do <hes> so i once some poet in england cool selima hill i went on a cool ones and she said that's nipping as poet one of the by products of living as a poet is poems parents kind of salafi swath of you like and as a result o- being in relationship with the world in a particular way and and so i guess the one of the ways of looking at the different things that i do <hes> is that they're all kind of a byproduct of some <hes> central co on. I guess some some things that i brought to this world and that needs to be investigated. There's service would i'm. I think it's defined gotten. If you've heard the anger donald h yeh grazie talks about all the vying. It's like some millions of the world with <music> an everything that we do revolves around it somehow <hes> trying to work something else something three and i would have said said why the guy that might providing my my central cohen was something about us being able to tell the truth so in my books novels often foul people who are finding waves speaking. Something hasn't found a space to be heard <hes> as a therapist. I'm helping my clients to find our interest rates it or bring into it. Bring into the world's <hes> as a buddhist priest the same but i think the kobe gives you a different nonce now which is more about coming me into relationship with the divine i think wow <hes> and the the that's my job as a little may and also hopefully can help others to to do that never way <hes> wherever the divine is for them he might be the bushehr might be something entirely different wiping nature. That's that's something that the that remains important tanned. Yeah is a thread that runs through. You know that's interesting because i think that's what it for those of you who run out and get such as book. I think that's what you'll find. There is the it's sort of a it's a i. I love this kind of thing. As sort of a of a hack put myself is is the juxtaposition of like the real earthy goofy awful stuff and the divine and sacha has a wonderful way of kind an inner weaving although so much so that it's like <hes> you know there's sometimes there's no transition and i think that i think that puts the people who are very linear and you know and i mean it's like the bottom off. I'm not saying people are put off by writing. I'm saying it can be confusing to people who don't have that sense of okay. I'm just gonna you know it's like i had a friend. I introduced a book into a book to her. It was delight inside the dark. You know the book on tura yet yes one of my favorite books of all time and i introduced it to a friend who was leading workshops at a high corporate level in xerox and i told i told her that this might be a good it was the sort of the learning forum or something i forget what was called and i suggested that that might be a book that she she would never have thought of and that she could. She might try try it and she she read the book and she said oh my gosh this thing reads like a river so i think that's what i'm trying to say. They long winded that you write like a river and in and it's sorta like you know. It's not the same no matter where he is step in yet yet. It's still the river and and in unless you're willing to kind of go with it. You might get a little lost so nice. That's interesting and ye saying that makes me think of look. As i really admire i come the more you you vice yeah yeah and <hes> and richard war. I think it very well well. I remained shapiro. I really appreciate those office who are able to really bring the whole of them messy humanity to the title. Yes the messy humanity. That's the thing you do that so well. Ask the expense of yourself. Most of the vitamins wait a minute. You kind of kind of blind out what books this is now well then once you see it in writing. How does it feel for run so you know too. Many people like in the u._s. And even possibly other countries you know that sort of mix of buddhist priests and psychotherapists many they seem a bit conflicted sort of on this whole sort of realm of the messy humanity and <hes>. I think to a lot of people especially in the u._s. Where psychotherapy is little bit different than it is in the u._k. Because of the licensure and so forth and it's it's structured in such a clinical and clinical qualifications. I think the thought of a a psychotherapist and a buddhist priests might seem czar to people in our country and maybe offering so you know in episode twenty three the one before this one i talked with greg creech about buddhist psychology wiped the master of japanese psychology <hes> which was a wonderful time with him but can you talk to us a bit about being both a buddhist priest and you sort of touched on it but maybe up with more buddhist priests and psychotherapists and so for you what makes compatible it might be the divine and what is the driving influence for you serving in both of those roles great question so i came. I became a psychotherapist before i became a buddhist. I was an atheist when i when i became as like terrapin which sounds more <hes> for most people's head. I think they've the long way from that. Use your have <hes> originally. I think psychotherapy was just a way old. Follow <hes> helping people discover the truth. I guess and speak it helping people to comment relationship and i'm beginning to notice with me. What happens happens for them. Nation ship with others with the world and i did the buddhist psychotherapy training with with dhamma pitcher david brazier and that influence that was that was hugely helpful in terms of personal transformation <hes> the probably the biggest thing in by inc also that training was ski show sankara's <hes> model of the therapist krist that decline basically being someone who's low on faith and the therapist someone who has more faith. I'm still the therapist and boris percents sits with them and so some of the and find their own again and leaves at least he's that's the kind of the endpoint so says that mobile really resonated with me that that way of thinking about will appease <hes> and i think that still is probably the easiest way of speaking about the link between my book in my religious role in my work in in a road of of <hes> secular healing. I guess uh-huh is i am grounded in my faith and that allows me to be present with clients. You have lost have lost that sense of feeling held by something i space. It's possible for today's positive than to to emerge in a way that safe. That's so <hes> that's so so pure land and for we'll see we're going to go into this more but for those because i'm sure if not half more than half of the people who listen to me could never have heard of pure land buddhism latte or yeah or if they did. They may have a really strange range impression of it is so strange to be honest. I think those of russell follow it. Maybe are a bit strange. Maybe that's we can only speak for myself. I don't know the but i i i always i have the sense of my listeners but my audience grow so i don't wanna know who my listeners our but i have the sense of my listeners from the beginning inning as being way more secular because that was the sort of the hook based on the name of the podcast so i i always always try to explain things. You know probably deeper than my guess would like to go. I'm reading with you because i think that's something that's. I'm glad you said that because it's really important to me that if we use language that come over trigger for people like the f. word favor to get into cadets. I'm i've got targeted by help and it's not the f. word that people think we're talking. It's helpful to do a little bit of translation around around that so so as not to exclude people who don't feel that we're speaking about their experience is my experience of life is it's. It's the two levels the broader a tour. It's about it's a steadiness. It's a sense of things being cave. No i don't know what's going to happen. Could you know those those kinds of things that to me. That's his that's. His faith needs so yeah. That's you know so. Let's get get to a this is a great opening. We'll go into later. I think will in a little more depth of you know to plum here unless talk about up pure land buddhism sent your book is titled coming home refuge in pearland buddhism and sort of a primer or intro to pure land buddhism. You had another book about that too but we'll talk about that later. <hes> so in the west like i said i hinted at i believe it may be both the most invisible and the most misunderstood if it is. I'm the buddhist paths zen and tibetan buddhism here in the west are very well known but the practices involving <hes> mita me taba you know the boot of infinite lied however you wanna term it have been you know although prevalent in east asia and maybe widespread even in <hes> <hes> southeast asia and some in tibet because they also practice <hes> the visualization sutra.