We'll safe to say he knows a lot about the subject of risk dealing with it facing it managing it and Tim now writing about it Retired four star general Stan McChrystal is former commander of the joint special operations in Iraq and founder of the McChrystal group his latest book risk a user's guide aims to help individuals and organizations mitigate risk Yeah he's lived a life filled with the deadly risks of combat We know that We began though our conversation along those lines by asking for his thoughts on the recent U.S. Military withdrawal from Afghanistan where he also served I was sad to see the way it played out overall Because many of us became very emotionally connected with Afghanistan So it's important to remember that because I also would tell you that's one of the reasons my views are biased by my personal opinion I think that some fortunate we pulled out But I would say that I think President Biden made a courageous decision I mean the accord that was signed in Doha by president Trump's administration essentially set a hard date of 1 May 2021 So President Biden was faced with the choice of either abrogating that agreement and extending the war or following it which is essentially what he did People ask me if I agreed with it and my answer is I respect the decision by the commander in chief It's not the recommendation I would have made but that's the way our system is supposed to work Military leaders provide best advice and then president decides The top U.S. Military officer we're talking about general Mark milley chairman of the joint chiefs of staff He called the 20 year war in Afghanistan a strategic failure Why was that And do you agree Well I couldn't argue with the fact that it was a failure of somebody if I tried to say no it's a success I think that be disingenuous However I will say that it wasn't completely for nought Afghanistan is a very different country than it was in 2001 when we went back So the reality is the 20 years of educational opportunities for females for young people and other advances that Taliban are going to try to control a very different state And I'm hopeful in the long term that either causes them to change the way they lead or open opportunities for different governance I'm wondering general McChrystal if the way that the United States left Afghanistan if it tarnishes the United States reputation in the view of countries around the world It certainly doesn't help There were some miscalculations that came out and I don't plan to fall with the planning But things happen But the reality is when people see it from afar whether they are potential enemies in which case they might think less of us or our potential allies and they are trying to decide if we are a reliable capable partner So in a very public world as I'll describe it every time you have a challenge like that It has some effect on your reputation So like a commercial firm We now need to work on that We need to pay attention and work to try to recover a better off ground there Well the world continues to find itself in some incredibly risky situations Your book is all about it And I think about the financial crisis the pandemic that we're still dealing with today's increasingly crisis within the energy sector cyberattacks our leaders ignoring the signs are their systems for detecting risk not good currently focusing on the wrong signs and methodologies or risk in terms of obviously pulling out of something like Afghanistan Yeah I would say first we don't assess risk very well because we're always externally trying to predict what they will be and when they'll come And that's really just too hard because they're too buried I think we need to be looking internal more What is it that you think a leader needs to keep in mind when it comes to diversity and assessing risk I think we think about diversity too often as just gender or race or religious background We're really talking about different perspectives And so if we talk about bringing together a team we'll call it a board of directors or anything else If you have diversity on an on a superficial level of general and whatnot you might not have diversity of perspective You might have people all from the same background all bankers or whatever And so what they'll do is they'll leave blind spots And diversity needs to be thought of not as equality a quality is a legal right and a moral right Diversity is an operational necessity for organization So ensuring that you've got people that are looking from every different angle and bring different experience of expertise Have a question for you And I'm going to give credit where credit's due because your team kind of shared some thoughts with us But one of the things that came to their mind and we think this is just spot on is how do you feel U.S. leadership dealt with COVID-19 And what could have been done differently Yeah that's a great question I think they fumbled it pretty badly If you think about COVID-19 although it is a dangerous risk it's not ten feet tall It's not unbeatable And it wasn't unexpected We have this kind of challenge every few years and we know a lot about public health So we actually know what to do about it And then of course we've got the help with the scientific miracle of fast vaccine But if you think about from the beginning what we really needed was clear communication even admitting what we don't know informing the national population And then we needed a clear narrative How is it is our nation going to deal with that Tell people if we want to use a war analogies I think would have been appropriate We asked every American to take part in the common defense of every other American And then of course we go down the willingness to make decisions overcome the inertia that sometimes causes us issues And the ability to be adaptable is things change like the rise of the delta variant In almost every case we fumbled it pretty badly and I would argue that the 700,000 Americans that we have lost is far more than we ever needed to lose Do you think general McChrystal Americans would have made that sacrifice if it was communicated to them in the way that you communicated it to us It does seem like right now there is not a sense of shared sacrifice among all of us right now with the way that people act when it comes to being asked to wear a mask taking a vaccine a vaccine mandate that sort of thing Jimmy you're right I think that they would have of course we couldn't approve it until we did it But if we go back in time our history when we have asked the American people to sacrifice and be a part of that we hadn't very good results And I think that's the only way to go when we're trying to do something that affects all of us That was retired four star general Stan.