Arima And Co, Emily Thompson, Joanne Boyce discussed on MarTech Podcast
Help you excel in all that you do. Thanks, Emily. If you're interested in hearing more from Emily Thompson on the being boss podcaster or any of the other great hosts in the HubSpot podcast network, go to HubSpot dot com slash podcast network. Okay, on with today's interview, joining us is Joanne Boyce, who is the founder of arima and co, which is establishing inclusive marketing as an industry standard worldwide. Marketing is the power to change society and arima and co believe that providing marketers with education resources and tools can change the way that they work to make a positive impact. Yesterday, Joanne and I talked about inclusive marketing and today we're going to continue the conversation talking about creating inclusive marketing strategies. But before we get started, I wanted to say thank you to insightly for sponsoring this podcast. Most businesses struggle to manage customer data and relationships across their teams. And site leaves unified CRM elevates the customer experience by aligning sales, marketing, and service into one platform, and this helps businesses like yourself smarter, grow faster, and build longer lasting relationships. Visit in sightly dot com slash martech for a personalized demo that's insightly IN si ght dot com slash martek. All right, here's the second part of my conversation with joy Ann Boyce, the founder of arima and co. Joanne, welcome back to the martek podcast. Thanks for having me back. Benjamin, so glad to be here. Excited to have you back on the show. You know, we actually had a longer than normal episode yesterday because we were having such a good conversation about what inclusive marketing is and it gets into the idea that you need to focus on a wide variety and different types of people and not just segment your marketing by, I don't know what stereotypical boundaries might be. So opening up to diversity in terms of ethnicity in terms of gender in terms of disabilities in your marketing effort to something that can not only help you increase your Tam, totally addressable market, but it also is the way of the future where younger generations are starting to prioritize the business relations that they have based on values. And if you don't have diversity and inclusion as one of your core values, you're a dinosaur. Now the problem is a lot of businesses don't know how to do this. So give me the playbook here. All right, I gotta start being more inclusive in my marketing strategies. Am I just creating ads with actors that are different skin colors that can't just be it, right? It's gotta be more than that. So much more. I was hoping it would be that simple, but I know it's not. It's not, but again, going back to what I said in our previous episode, it is marketing because the first thing I would say with your inclusive marketing strategy is to start with an audit, know where you are. Know what your representation is, know where you stand, know how people perceive your brand online, because if you don't know, you're not going to be able to gauge what the efforts have gotten you. You're not going to be able to gauge if you've expanded your audience, if there's been any shift or narrative. So start with an audit. And in that audit, start looking at your audience mark and personas and the segmentation of those. Have you ever considered disability race or gender when you're thinking of has that been a discussion within the team? Look at your website, how accessible is it for people who are using screen readers or other accessibility devices when it comes to the accessibility of the website? I do want a lot of my clients on this one. That is a project in the sense of you're going to improve it as the tech improves. Screen readers in the back in the days and screen readers now are very different websites back in the day and websites now are no longer hello world. They are very different. So put that part of your strategy throughout the year and check on that and make sure you review it and kind of understand how you can make improvements as you're building and improve the website, improving your content. But I say the best thing to do is start with an audit. All right, so you got to go through an audit and understanding what? Is it just who your targets are? Is it obviously you mentioned the disability, how accessible your website is probably something people think about last and it's not something that people think about it in marketing it's something seems like a technology solution can all people actually access my content. So I understand accessibility that seems like a technical solution, talk to me about how you figure out diversity and inclusion in your marketing. How do you think about ethnicities and gender? So one of the things we like to do is just tell you what your perception is online. The best way you can do it is probably ask someone who doesn't know anything about your business organization, what vibe is it giving? Would they work here? And depending on the people you ask, you get different answers. A client of ours was very proud of the gender split of their team and they used their team and all their marketing content. And when we did a audit of their website their socials, we found that even though their team was 50 50 gender split, which you would assume their content would be the content was actually 90% male. And this was a surprise to them because in their minds they were pushing every member of the team equally, but they weren't tracking it so they didn't know. So you hear it a lot in diversity and inclusion not to do a tick box, but when you come to marketing, we produce things that live on the Internet for a time period, you have to go and count it and count the perception of it, not what you know of the individual. So how is this being perceived and how would someone interpret this story with someone interpret the person sat at the desk as a disabled person? You may know that they are, but is it interpretable in that content? And you just go through and look at your website, your socials. And if you can find anyone speaking about your brand in a bad way. Unfortunately, that's also helpful because it's kind of honest ish opinion of how your digital presence is. Because sometimes this market is, we can blur the lines of how we see things. I got in trouble once and it was related to marketing to actually this was specific genders. I was working at a laundry and dry cleaning delivery startup. And I wanted to test a gender specific creative. And so we had a picture of a guy probably stereotypical is probably a white guy drinking a beer at home or going to a game being at a sports bar. And you can reclaim laundry day. Instead of sitting at home doing your laundry, you could be out doing the things that you want to do. And there was a companion piece of creative that was, do you want more guy time, the other one was, do you want more girl time? And the girl time was two girls sitting at a Starbucks or a coffee shop. Having a cup of coffee. And the people that saw the ad targeting women started getting upset saying that this is sexist. So the reason why I'm telling this story is I'm not sure how you create specific pieces of creative that target non diverse audiences. If you are targeting black, white, you know, every color you could possibly think of with specific pieces of creative, people will view that as being stereotypical, right? But sometimes putting that creative together might actually produce a better result. How do you think about targeting in your creative and your marketing efforts and how much should you be thinking about imagery that includes diversity or trying to put the same type of imagery in front of people that look like those images? There's a couple of layers there. So that specific example, I would have been what is the emotion you're trying to create and emotion is you want to create where people have control at that time. Taking the story back to then is looking at what the data says, when do people feel like they have no control at a time. If there's a gender split in that story narrative, maybe follow that and explore it. However, it could have worked the same way. You could have swapped out the person drinking a beer for a guy or a girl or someone non binary. Pretty universal. It was more and I don't remember if it was actually drinking a beer at a sports bar, but that's what I think of guy time. Get together with your buddies, go watch the game. And that's why I think it's really important to when it comes to marketing and I will preface this when it comes to boxing, bring the bias to the table. Because that was your interpretation of guy time. And if it was a room where you can say actually what's everyone's interpretation of me time, then that will impact the creative. It'll impact the story that's being told. Me time damn, where were you ten years ago when I was creating these ad, that would have been such a better campaign instead of guy time and girl time, a little bit more me time. Everything is shifted and that's another aspect of it. We could have done such a better job with.