President Trump, Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani discussed on Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network
This is Josh Barrow. Welcome to left right and center. You're civilized yet. Provocative antidote the self contained opinion bubbles that dominate political debate. It is the first week of November and this week. The New York Times made a lot of liberals nervous new high-quality battleground state polls from the time. Paint a picture of a close twenty twenty election sending a different message from the national polling. We see more often with big leads for Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders part of the message. Here is that trump's electoral college advantage appears to be widening. That is whatever trends are happening in the suburbs that continue to weaken Republicans with it's part of their traditional base. Then be taking away. Votes in Texas or even more votes in California but in Pennsylvania Michigan Wisconsin. Those effects aren't as important things remain Ayn close. And you could conceivably see. Donald trump be reelected while losing the popular vote by an even wider margin than he lost last time and that has a lot of Democrats wondering what they need to do in this primer to prevent that from happening. We're GonNa talk about that later today. And how you should think about polls so far in advance of an election but now let's bring in our left right and center panel as always I'm your center. I'm joined by rich lowry editor of National Review on the right and on the leftist Sabil Rahman Demos we also have a special guest today oil Edwards Levy who is reporter and pulling editor hitter at huffpost. Hello everyone hey josh hi everybody so. There were elections on Tuesday and a few states. We can talk about twenty nineteen elections before we turn to twenty twenty me And Republicans did hold onto the governorship in Mississippi By about six points but in Kentucky Republican incumbent Matt Bevin lost despite a last-minute assist from president trump who rallied for him in the state and he Bashir won that Election Kentucky succeeding were other Democrats have failed in two ways. He held onto part of the ancestral democratic radic base in Appalachian Eastern Kentucky which is otherwise swung hard toward Republicans any made inroads in one strongly Republican suburbs of Louisville and Cincinnati. The suburbs suburbs also delivered for Democrats in Virginia giving the Party control of both chambers of the state legislature and therefore full control of that state's government for the first time in decades Sabil. What lessons do you see in these results? as Democrats look to next year so a couple of things jump out I is. This is a pretty important result for the Democrats right. You have a really important shift in Virginia now with the TRIFECTA that's GonNa change the politics and the policies that come out of the state. And when you compare Virginia Kentucky this move in the suburbs that you're describing really is a strong pattern across the different states. We'll see there also is a similar move happening in rural counties to in the other direction and I'm sure we'll talk about that in a moment The other I think that it's as you know there is a grain of salt right. It's twenty nine hundred dollars off your election. it's hard to extrapolate national trends. So it's this isn't quite the same as the precursor to two thousand eighteen eighteen But it is a strong result for the Democrat rich. When you look at Virginia Democrats? It felt like we're having a rough year in Virginia. You know you had the the black face scandal with the governor and the other black-faced scandal with the Attorney General and rape accusations against the Lieutenant Governor and some Democrats in the legislature and the governor staking out a position on abortion worship that Republicans thought was very extreme. And what outrage the median voter. None of that seems to have stopped the steady forward march of Virginia becoming a blue state. Yes this is the marshes right word. It's a trend. That's been going on for a long time. Has To do with demographic changes in the state state becoming better educated more suburban more diverse so oh the whole divide we're seeing now between the suburbs and More rural working class voters. It's something that's been going on for quite a long time. And and trump has just accelerated it and he's His conduct is repellent to a lot of of former Republicans in the suburbs especially women with the question. And we'll well I guess address. This in a little bit is whether he can do what he didn't. Twenty sixteen. Draw a A broadly are radioactive released easy to make radioactive opponent and take off enough of the edge in in the suburbs to just barely over the top again. Arielle is the national story that simple bull as you know re Republicans keep doing worse in especially inner suburbs and Democrats keep doing worse in rural areas and if that is the story is that an even trade between the two parties ladies. I mean I think that is in large part what we are seeing across the country. And you know I think that can obscure that that there will always be things happening in a particular race in particular level. I mean you saw that in Kentucky where certainly considerations that were not national politics obviously sleigh. That's a good notorial race where it's a little bit of a different story in terms of how much partisanship is going to influence people's votes but you are seeing these broader demographic trends ends of just these areas sorting themselves out more and more and now we'll see whether that ends up evening out and whose favor that is rich which the governor's arial notes. There were some specific local factors. Matt Bevin was not the best like person including institutionally in the Republican Party in Kentucky tried to defeat beat Mitch McConnell and a primary few years ago so after this close result he lost by about five thousand votes. He's basically said he's not going to concede he thinks there were a regularities. He wants a canvas canvas. Maybe he's going to contest the election first of all. What do you like he lost? What do you make of him coming out and saying that and then also what do you make of the response of the Republican Party in Kentucky which has been mostly mostly to sort of ignore him and say well he lost the five thousand votes is not a a lot in the scheme of things? But in the recount are- canvas sincere a scenario huge and the chances of overturning that are extremely minimal. Basically impossible so I. I don't like the trend. We saw Stacey. Abrams do it and Georgia as well. Oh you lost. Please be gracious about it. So very tough thing personally is hard to take but go away and don't tell us for years afterwards. How you were truly the winner? When clearly weren't bill I as I hear Democrats worrying about you know what is true? IS TRUMP GONNA admit he lost if he loses the two thousand twenty election and this I I've not been very. Are you worried about that. For reasons. That are are playing out on the Ground Kentucky. which is you know you can say? I didn't lose. I didn't lose and that can be irrelevant if other people won't go along with it and it looks to me here you know the Partly I think you know as as noting five thousand votes as a lot if it was five hundred votes might be a different situation but also it's it's parallel to trump and that you have an executive who the other institutional elements in the party never really wanted in charge and there's a part of them that I'm sure is just pleased to be done with. Ben Yeah I mean I think I think that's a hopeful a lesson I hope you're right Taking the model of of Kentucky I mean. Look here's the here's the challenge. In some ways that the the decision making factor here here is going to be the rest of the institutional right. What the party things right? If the Party doesn't go along with it then it just becomes sort of a slightly embarrassing stance on the part of the losing candidate and it goes away. In Our democracy proceeds in democracy only works if both sides recognize the legitimacy of the results right and so I think that's our right. What I worry about is when we talk about the impeachment scenarios you know? They're they're such a strong incentive at the moment for the institutional powerbrokers of the Republican Party disarray fall in line with the president that that's where I would put more concern right presents going to do what he's going to do he always has but at. What point? Does the rest of the party decide you know what the rules those are the rules we have a we have other. People can put forward in an electoral contest. And we don't need to keep following this train. Well let's talk about impeachment I think that's a a good time for talk about impeachment Rich there's there's an article in the New York Times This week about an emerging defense that House Republicans are talking about I as it becomes clearer that there was some sort of quid pro quo. Oh here around Ukraine ambassador. Gordon Sunland has changed his mind. He refreshed his recollection and said. Oh Yeah I did. I did tell the Ukrainians that they would have to make this public statement about investigating the Biden's in order to get the release of the military aid and so Republicans are talking about the possibility of saying essentially the these guys were freelancing. Yes somehow a message got to the Ukrainians that there was this quid pro quo. Hello that but maybe trump never authorized them to send that message. Maybe he didn't want want to after all. Trump's specifically denied Senator Ron Johnson that he had proposed a quid pro quo and especially in the case of Rudy Giuliani. Maybe he was even acting for his own independent financial interests. You had all these business interests in Ukraine. Maybe he was using his position close to the president. I want to push his own agenda. And that's where this quid pro quo idea came from in. The president is innocent and I think in that context. It's worth considering a tweet. That Rudy Giuliani sent. This week. That looks outwardly. Really liked defensive the president but I'm not sure it is. He says the investigation I conducted concerning twenty sixteen Ukrainian collusion and corruption was done solely as a defense attorney to defend my client against false charges unquote. So is it a viable defense of the president to basically throw Rudy Giuliani under the bus. And say whatever these people did. The president did authorize them to do that. Because it certainly sounds like Giuliani is going to say no. I did this. In my capacity as the president's agent yes I say a couple things one. There's a glimmer of an opening for this defense because most most of the people we've heard from so far really almost all the people we've heard from so far had what trump was thinking is second or third hand because they weren't the insiders which is you know. More Bolton Mulvaney Giuliani and it's entirely plausible. That Giuliani and important respects was freelancing but I think that would have to do more with his business dealings in Ukraine. So it's just hard to believe that that these guys got this cooked up this idea on on their own how How did the defense aid get withheld? Gordon silent that too and trump mentioned on the call talk to Rudy. which again is an indication that he enroute route? Era are on the on the same board on the soap a month ago when he was still pretty early. I had theory that it might defense. I offered tentatively that maybe maybe there was the intention of the quid pro quo never really got to the Ukrainians clear. At least it got to the Ukrainians. And I still. I know you're skeptic Josh by so think the Defense Republican senators will end up falling back on. is they got the money. And they didn't make a statement about investigations and this is. This is the sideshow Bob Defense. You know the attempted murder. There's no there's no Nobel prize for attempted chemistry right But that in the simpsons. That's a joke like it is it. Is it really good enough to say. Well you know the president it didn't get away with it and therefore no harm no foul. Yeah I think it any fifth-grader recognizes just how paper thin excuses is you know won't get very far in in the real world and we'll get very far year It's it's so it's not an excuse at all right. Of course the the the the point is in the attempt and I agree with what Richard I mean these Excuse the freelancing. Excuse this each week. There's a new sort of angle right and they all kind of keep falling down one after another in large part because of stuff that the president and Guiliani audion others keep saying on live. TV and on twitter from their own mouths so it is kind of absurd so I know you hate this question rich for so. This still isn't impeachable and I ask again. I wanted to because of that. Giuliani tweet because one thing that we've been talking about is what exactly was role when the president says talk to Rudy. And you had said Ed I think accurately sometimes have presidents have unofficial envoys. They have people who are close to them who act as emissaries and that is not inherently inappropriate. That's true but again we have rudy. Giuliani saying here that that he was quote solely unquote acting as a defense attorney to Donald Trump. which is to say that you know whatever he was doing he was not doing it as an unofficial envoy the United States he was doing it as a personal attorney? Donald trump in his personal capacity. Isn't that therefore the president using a resource of the United States government. It's it's foreign policy for what is explicitly personal purpose yet. What's what do you have? You talked to your personal attorney about if there's a personal price so again this this is my defense and I hope it doesn't go down in textbooks as lowered fence but maybe it will is not just not to say. It wasn't improper it was. It's a question of the gravity of the fence. And whether that justifies impeaching and removing him from office and I just I do not think that outcome would be better for the country could actually make our politics worse and it would be an injury. I think to our our politics and our institutions to not just you know partially due an election which every impeachment potentially does not fully Redo it because pence would be the president but to short-circuit reelection campaign. That has some significant chance of winning. It's not like he's at twenty percent. The country is is uniformly outraged by this and There's a consensus that it's it's that grave there isn't and in fact fact. There's quite a likely scenario. Forty fifty percent. Whatever it is that he'll get impeached and get reelected so if the polling moved on this if you know if his numbers went went down to the high twenty s or something and we had you know sixty plus percent for impeach and remove with with that move you well see? I think the dynamic here is something much more grave save the polling would potentially move. But it's not gonNA move because there was not an enormous harm to the country here are. Let's talk about that. That public opinion situation relation..