Donald Trump, Southampton, Peter Hitchens discussed on John Anderson: Conversations
You're listening to conversations with John Anderson during Peter Hitchens, so I paid the thank you very much for giving us some time. Can I begin by saying that in my country, and I think it's probably pretty much the same rod across the west. Now, the research and the data shows what the the sort of state of the pants assessment will tell you people are very distrustful of the system politics, the institutions of society that shirt and badly fractured as will the fragmenting into groups that so in very hostile to each other. How's it come to? This is cone to this. Because ultimately things have an effect long after they've happened when I was just moved child. I lived near the greats seaport supports within Southampton and would go down to the beach and watched the great ocean liners which still and went back. Who is the Atlantic? And this game you could play you could watch say the Queen Elizabeth Norma's ship poss- by about two miles out. And you then wait for the by wave come. Sometimes you wait so long forgotten. It was coming. It. Would you turn your back on track you in the back? So how'd it would not over? There was a huge distance in time between the event. And it's fact I think we see now the effect of the collapse of particularly of European unity, which I think BA guy and then fully on from the first World War where the is made the great mistake of supporting a war, which turned out quite patiently. Not to be a Christian actor to be great Warf civilization was it'd been portrayed as being. And so so she hid themselves with we on such a scale that they could never really recover them or a literacy and it began to drain away from from that point. But of course, people continue to act you suddenly get an audible click and people suddenly stop behaving, Christian fashion. The churches. Collapsing. The the cultural Christie is the general standing Christian rules. The general knowledge of the scriptures. The seven on the mount persisted in the population and still persists people have certain age, but has pretty much vanished. I was reading the other day that a thanks various films, and and children's fiction many English children now, no the Greek myths of far better than the gospels. They shouldn't be not taught the gospels versus not they don't know the parables which been a huge influence for some not know them. You can't expect this kind of cultural earthquake to happen. And for not town affect the amazing thing is that it's taken so long. But the wave has finally struck the beach and people are seeing due to great consequences to too great material consequences of Christianity for the societies in which it's been proven trust on which almost all serious exercises. Must be. Based on the rule of power. How can anyone accept that? Little should be more should be more sources than temporal unless they believe that it has some sort of divine origin, once that goes it goes so these things departing from amongst while we continue to live in highly advanced physically and technically advanced as well civilizations where there's advances are also be based on trust in the law in the end as they depart those societies we'll see store operate as they've done. I think it is an electoral process, which will lucky to be seeing the beginning of so to draw something out of that when trust breaks down in a democracy people flee for security. They democracy is another question. And I I'm not really a democrat. I don't think that universal. Suffrage democracy has been a success. I'm I believe Lucy under the laws great possession of the Anglosphere countries and universal suffrage democracy has tended to be. Inimical to indeed it is Michael to freedom as well as we've recently seen in Turkey Lee, universal suffrage democracy has been used to destroy the root of laws and destroy freedom speech thought an assembly freedom of the press and to create a very dangerous autocracy. There's another example of that. But under Godwin's law alums never mentioned the Nazis. But there is the it's not the only example with where democracy is destroyed freedom. But I don't I didn't rely particularly on democracy as a defense and things that I love so thing you just have to put up with. I think the point I was saying seeking drought though, is that given that you have a democracy, if people become if you like a fried, they flee full security, if I think people and institutions and all kind of do what they ought to do voluntarily life leave for the rulebook, and that starts to erode freedom. They also do is they flee to populists and the Trump phenomenon is as an example of this. And so there are many many reasons for the Trump I in some ways he behaves much as the left to which is why they didn't like him in terms. Semi literate intelligence of opponents oppose the post expense cells. No the restaurant, but the other thing is goes. Social liberals in western societies for many, many years imagined their opponents were all like, no Trump. And so they know them and pay no attention to them. Eventually they've got a real Donald Trump. And now they're angry. But if they listen to people like me twenty years ago, then they would never have got people. I don't Trump. They do populism is is is a great danger. I we have the structures of universal suffrage democracy and out of it all kinds of Munster's can be born. And I fear that comes. And especially if we get as I think, I'd know your country has different economic problems for mine. But if we get the crisis, which seems to be count be indefinitely postponed, given the level of particularly of personal debt that we have in this country, then then the structures go, then I think the tendencies was some kind of pretty savage populism. We'll be strong. It's hard to avoid that conclusion. I think actually, and they will be another recession. They're always he is most western countries have used the remaining shots in their lockers. They went beyond the Bronx. We know that it's the same. Things are being done is being done before the two thousand and eight and with no zone, and I remember some years ago, the quite clever, but failed film contagion I saw an airplane. Probably in the cinema's about two minutes before found which was about a third of swine flu at break. But for that break so suddenly spreading threatened survives countries. I think the reason it failed was because it was such a believable trail of what happens to advanced country when there's a general breakdown of authority in with things cease to exist. And if you get a situation, which I very much fear where money dies, then things of that kind might happen. I'm genuinely worried about the about the near future. I don't think it's good and particularly for for my own country, where we have especially strong problems one ridiculous overestimate our importance, and well, and are in Busey's trade and Secondly, a tremendous inbuilts crisis based upon unsustainable debt. So given the nature of these. Intractable problems. And given that the evidence is quite overwhelming that they are real not imaginary. They're not going to go. Why why is it then that we are unable to pull together enough for long enough to have a reason debate about any of this?