Developer, Cooper Netease, CIC discussed on The 6 Figure Developer Podcast
From a developer standpoint. Your Code is the thing the Henry optimizing and although you could develop and tasks in the container running. The truth is to do that correctly. Requires you to master a lot of other details. That have nothing to do. You become a container developer in not an application developer and that he will call it hinge between native developed at an what is supposed to be immutable immutable infrastructure. Immutable applications means that you gotTa really sort of from a developer language sampling. You gotTa really can't nail the experience with retooling ask at individual developers love kind of geeking out on that and it's wonderful but what it means is that over the last three. To five years at scale we moved away from the container native developed. We really we just failed to take things like trapped in there. Were others like I say till gets close to this and there are a couple of other projects that are pretty good that we're we're trying and since we failed to give that tooling enough work fast enough. Basically developers an operational work when passed and now most people moved to a building the container on a push to get and that makes containment more of integration solution more a CIC pipeline solution in less of a developer choice that turns out to be the default. It's not necessarily the best or the worst way of doing it. Just you can see that trend happening the result of that then that connect makes real easy to see why things like get off says the sort of flow right begin to be important because now you can drive your whole engine of development and artifact creation delivery off of what happens in get as opposed to what a developer might have. Done it all sorted. You can see how involved in a way that has to do with the developer reception in the inability to sort of as a huge mass of talented people. Sort of all skill up on container esoterica at speed. We really basically said you know what? Actually that's more trouble than it's worked and so that's sort of where we stand now. It's actually go ahead and optimize on from a language standpoint and choose your language and then try and work with your Surrounding environment to make sure that the tool for the language builds your containers directly for debugging then also released another problem with containers. That's hard to get around with. Some languages can debugged the same container the ship making things immutable there. But other languages you gotta actually put the debugged container and run that and that is slightly different than the real the real code. And so you get into these when you really start using this stuff heavily you got to be a master of that song. Which is certainly doable. People are doing it but what it means is in an organizational situations as opposed to you know smaller companies were. They're closer full stack. Beverly do everything kind of things. Yup Looking at Separation of concerns. There somebody becomes an application operations team and they work on the templates developers consume and the pipelines developers use as opposed to the actual application. The developer does everything and just so. That's one of the things that I always wanted to sort of just dump out in one place. It's an amazing actually process transformation where there were opportunities two years ago that we no longer happen soon. Nobody's GONNA learn contains at that well as a result one of the audit results of that is that containers are mostly way too big and heavy like I'm not even talking about windows containers like people ship containers eight hundred eggs too. Because they can't very related to all of that. I have been using containers for development for a few years now started with a angular application and we needed to run the same in Dev as wouldn't production because we're running into issues with node being upgraded or not upgraded different versions on different developers. So kinda built up the containers for that to work so that we got a consistent environment all the time when everybody's computer assault a lot of problems absolutely will end then in my in my newer applications. I'm doing blazer and I made sure to default to a containerized Build but in visual studio and an just me doing it on my own. I've always used docker. Compose should should like a a developer. Select I guess a development my situation. Where I'm I'm the tech lead so I'm the one responsible for making sure that the builds are good for development and can be deployed not. I'm not to devops level of of the and all that stuff but I work with devops to make sure stuff works so someone in my position. Should I be doing Cooper Netease I don't even know I know. Roughly what Cooper Netease is but I was kind of think of it as like this. This V. Land that has all the containers for your application not whereas like well. I guess I look at it as exactly the same thing that compose Kinda does So how'd you know that's a fair view so I also am on the first of all you know caveat? I love kids a lot of fun. It's a great. It's a great system but it's a tool. Don't fetish your tools. I can say that I like to laugh about. I'm dead serious. Do not finish through tools. The reason being is because I'm you can see I'm great so there are so many tools I have eaten consumed and if this process they in my life that what I can tell you. Tools are great when they serve your needs in survivors question to you is you. Don't need a New User Newton no Cobra Nettie until in fact. It's slaps in the face of so like how do you build and deliver right now? Do you know where you're up. Steam drops her container or your application if they drop uncoordinated and you don't know why do you even care? Yeah I think they're just doing a service okay. So whether it's APPs like we'll talk about Microsoft terms or whether it's you know anything else right like it could be any pads you give them a container or you give them a bundle stuff right. Maybe so for example you drive Using containers as a consistent development environment right so the entire bet team could be slightly wiry or you know and yet when they're inside that container they're always getting exactly the right thing for delivery behave so it doesn't even matter whether you're delivering the containers are not pointers containers. Already helping you. And that's great. That is a fantastic tool and it continues to work off the communities very straightforward understand in fact the details of course are complex. Because you know orchestrations hard work but it's basically taking the container. You built the APP and then giving it to a docker host and running one of those and then wanting to run ten and then wanting to run a million so you gotTa build a program that runs a million so coronets runs a million fauria and if it falls over the replace it you know in. You don't have to do that okay. That is a fairly simple berry. Hi Ho obviously you know. Description of what communities does so your take on. It is right. It is another way of looking if you've done darker and you're familiar with docker composed files for example. A composed file is just another way of looking at a got one two three of these. I've got over here. And they connect in this way and I'm GONNA go logically. Speaking composes. A fantastic way to think up from the developer standpoint of a distributed application basically services talking to services and you can look at them and see how they interconnect and so forth coup Bonetti's manifest is just a more complex version of that and so for example if you get to communities. That's a that's an implementation detail of what you're doing and looking at when you look at compose compose great format and. I'm hoping we're going to see a lot. More that uses that format coming for That's why I really appreciate that. We have decided to kind of kick that responsibility down the road to to folks that are interested in maintaining in creating that infrastructure virtual infrastructure for us in coober netease that not every developer has to know all of it to to be able to develop. We just have to know enough to make sure it's containerized. Yes that's absolutely true as a developer. If you haven't gotten into yet explicitly right like Sony even say. Hey here's money you will if you're building processes which is an apple to process especially like websites web. App is a just an end point. That serves html supposed to or API. You know things like this. If you're building one of those right keep building. You should not be distracted by Cooper Nannies can give you an example. Why another Tory story of the five years of carbonates and that is a wall along. The other things that happened is that originally Kuban attis was a very simplified tower flea. Powerfully structured partially flexible architecture scale out individual processes that were the process continues right okay and there are lots of knobs inside coronation can touch and the thing about it is. The delivery mechanism is.