Ben Shapiro, Donald Trump, National Security Council discussed on Ben Shapiro


Welcome back this is the Ben Shapiro show joining us on the line to talk about the impeachment hearings in the the problems that president trump is head of the National Security Council is Michael Anton senior fellow at Claremont institute also former staffer in the trump administration of course most famous for his authorship of the flight ninety three S. saying the twenty sixteen election Michael thanks much for joining bench perish I really appreciate it thanks for having me so why don't we begin with an article that you wrote for the daily caller talking about the president and the gaps that he has with his own and I see those become perfectly obvious obviously over the course of this impeachment proceeding where the media seem to suggest that the president having a disagreement with the strategy of his own and I see is somehow an impeachable offense right to the main point of the article is to say that look the NSC has this tiny budget which means the president can't hire the people that he wants so we have to take them from the permanent bureaucracy and this is true of every president has been the way the industry has been around for decades but it's particularly harmful to a Republican because the government is staffed with Democrats and liberals and it's really particularly harmful to someone like president trump anti establishment figure who the disruptor who's coming outside the Washington consensus so he comes in with new ideas he wants to change things he's question the lot of the foreign policy of the United States has been going and he has a difficult time implementing what he wants because he's not allowed to hire people who agree with them and who want to implement what he wants in fact he's forced to borrow people from permanent Washington most of whom don't agree with him and want to do the opposite of what he wants and so you get this crazy parade of people it became this is an obvious to anyone who's ever worked in the NSA as I have twice but now it should be obvious to the general public where you had a bunch of people not all of them but I would say the majority of the people who testified in the Democrats impeachment hearings based on the leaks that we've gotten in their opening statements most of them are not saying in fact I don't think any of them said we think he did something impeachable or he broke the law what they're saying is his Ukraine policy is all wrong and it had me alarmed and we you know we need to get back on track of cementing a strategic alliance between the US and Ukraine and all the press coverage Washington is saying how Louis Hosanna absolutely true you know but no no and no one is saying wait a minute he wanted to change the stuff you can get acted you're just in that job because you're an elected member of the bureaucracy where do you get to decide right what the remedy is to the end of season real money its budget is very small under fifteen million give it some real money say two hundred million and let the president hire people he wants that two hundred million is not that much I hate to say this it's a terrible thing to say but it's true two hundred million is not that much money in Washington terms when the federal budget is we well over four trillion and to give the NSC two hundred million dollars so that the president can hire the people he wants who agree with him who are going to implement his position makes sense obviously this is less of a problem for democratic president because a democratic president you know who's hiring a bunch of permanent bureaucrats has basically already hiring people he agrees with which is why the Washington establishment I don't see this as a problem they'd like to just keep going to check on Republicans and enables Democrats right nothing to send but I do see it as a problem anybody who's a conservative who's a Republican who's a trump supporter should see this process I mean I certainly favor the idea that the president should actually be in charges on foreign policy and the idea that you have people inside the president's cabinet or basically seeing themselves track on the president's foreign policy and the American people elect a person that person gets to set the policy but with that said let's make the case from the other side now with regard to funding of the NSA but with regard to president trump's behavior with regard to Ukraine to the idea is that the president from shifted his policy on Ukraine that he did so for a good reason then the question becomes why do you think that he shifted his policy in Ukraine because up until you know earlier in it earlier last year basically earlier this year rather the president have been providing deadly aid to Ukraine in contravention contradiction rather to the Obama administration policy very very soft support for Ukraine trump's administration taking a much harder line in favor of Ukraine and against Russia particularly with regard to deadly aid facing down the problems in in Crimea what what do you think triggered president from to shift that policy well first of all that we only ship that took place with initially he didn't have it shipped it recently I was there for the first year of the trump administration and was around the present many times as he expressed skepticism about giving lethal aid to Ukraine he was concerned that it might draw us into a broader conflict with Russia indeed Burton Lee he would get he would ask questions about why why is it every time I you know I'm speaking as if I were him now why does every time that I talked to European leader they tell me you have to do more for Ukraine but they don't do anything themselves you know why should the American problem more the European problem in the Europeans are trying to pass it off to me and they don't want to do anything which I think is also a legitimate question and then he would read reports be given reports about systemic corruption in the government of Ukraine and say okay so we give them all this money or given this aid how do I know it's going to be spent or used wisely and he was very reluctant to do it and and I would say it's been about six months or so thinking it over listening to all the arguments of his advisers as the policy works through and eventually he decided to do it right against his initial inclination that was sometime in the summer of twenty seventeen I'm not aware of him ever changing that once he began that policy we've seen a report that apparently the aid was held up for some indeterminate period of time the Democrats are trying to impeach him on the ground that was a catchy explicitly linked to a quid pro quo that we weren't going to give any aid unless investigation was launched we'll see if they can prove that allegation they haven't yet the phone call what people are calling the transcript is actually called to tell Condit leave that aside the phone call transcript doesn't demonstrate that right and we do know that the aid was released and that the Ukrainians never launched an investigation either as a quid pro quo or independently so I think it's gonna be a hard thing for the Democratic Party and for the teachers to establish but they can keep trying so my guess is you know the present is from inside the administration I've offered the theory of his behavior here with what I was mentioning Beres ma and Joe Biden the Democrats basically suggested this entire in this tire impeachment hinges on president trump wanted to get Joe Biden in the lead up to twenty twenty it seems to me that if you read the that that was the transcript if you if you listen to the statements that the president has made if you follow the present at all he has this sort of me as a man of ideas about Ukraine it seems like you sort of just wrap them all up into a ball and then said I'm withholding aid from Ukraine until you solve issues X. Y. and Z. some of those may have been founded on and bad ideas like the idea that Hillary Clinton was in Ukraine but it was not about Biden specifically was that his perception of corruption however however based on bad material that may have been funneled him by Rudy Giuliani I would say he has well I you know I want to restate as he has basically three concerns and he has had from beginning about Ukraine number one he doesn't he doesn't want to lead to a wider conflict between the US and Russia inadvertently however low probability that might be it would be very high impact what happened number two he wonders why this is first and foremost an American issue or an American problem when the Europeans who are much more concerned about it and are much closer to it do less than we do much less in some cases nothing and constantly ask us to do more in in you're absolutely right he is concerned about Ukrainian corruption and wondering why when we have so many problems here at home that we need to sort out we should be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on the country on the other side of the world whose interests don't perfectly align with ours and who which may have a corrupt government and spend the money wisely as the Biden I just think this is gonna be another thing where the Democrats are gonna have a hard time convincing the American people that it's impeachable I have a long article on impeachment coming out in the next Claremont review books and I make the following argument which I think is perfectly reasonable right what trump is asking about in that specific instance is why did Joe Biden son get paid a lot of money for apparently doing nothing and having no expertise in either the country the language the industry or things like that now we know this kind of thing happens all the time with connected insiders politically connected insiders get paid lots of money sometimes by domestic American interests sometimes by foreign interests to do what appears to be not a whole lot what are they getting paid for the getting paid for the access for their connections and so on is that legally technically correct I don't know I guess that's case by case it sure looks corrupt though and it's amazing to me that the Washington establishment is pouncing on trump for asking about that just asking about it is if it's improper for him to say Hey we you guys doing something corrupt with the former vice president possible future president and then you allowed him to strong arm you out of continuing the investigation I don't know what really happened but that sounds pretty bad when you you know look into it I I think it's important that we know I think as an American citizen it is important that we know I personally would want to know if the vice president's son were paid a lot of money by a foreign government to do nothing or little that he had any expertise or background to do just so that that government could get access to senior government official I think everybody who is a citizen of the United States you want to know about that and should be concerned about that happening that's an abuse of our system and we shouldn't tolerate it if it happened so I guess I guess Michael the the the question that people on the left and people who are in favor the impeachment ask is okay so if trump was so concerned about Biden hunter Biden and why not just go to William Barr mean the AG is already investigating the origins of from Russia he's investigating craning interference in the twenty sixteen election wanna go through domestic law enforcement agencies instead of allegedly apparently he's supposedly told Gordon someone the ambassador to either he wanted you pray to make a public statement about investigating hunter and and Joe Biden I mean for all we know he have had that conversation with the Attorney General I you know the call tell con slash transcripts suggest that he had has had a conversation with the Attorney General or at least suggest that he intended to but the bottom line here though is there's only so much that in the US department of justice that.

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