Insomnia, Diarrhea, Reflux discussed on Do The Thing, with Whole30's Melissa Urban


You're you're welcome okay enough talking. This is a really good one and it's a little bit longer than normal because the info was too good to leave any of it out so without further ado you now onto the episode hi. I'm really excited to talk to you today. I'll Abou- How gut health so I guess officially I will welcome you to do the thing. Dr Michael Rubio. Thank you so much for joining us today for having me all right so before we begin in the podcast I ask every guest. What's your thing? My thing is helping people to understand how their symptoms and this includes even non digestive symptoms could be coming from their gut and then what steps they can take to treat this underlying cause I love that and I also want to let people know that you and I have been really good friends for a really long longtime and you've helped me with some of my gut issues in the past. Though when I wanted to get to the concept of do the thing is like thinking about what's been missing every time you've tried to make a change and with a lot of people I think they feel like they're doing the right things. They're changing their diet. They're eating more vegetables their eating lots of Salads. They're taking can you know probiotics and there's something missing in that equation and I think the information you're gonNA share today might unlock some action steps for them. I think so. uh-huh and in good health seems to be an area where people turn to the Internet and boy do they get confused. High carb low carb low fat gluten-free Eat whole grains Raines oxalate probiotics probiotics. DANCE MICROBIAL CBO it gets messy but if you if you have someone who's as I have for about thirteen eighteen years now doing this every day you figure out after a while what works what doesn't work of course that's heavily informed by what the scientific research shows then. It's not that hard but if you start googling stuff yeah you get pretty confused. Pretty darn quickly. I mean I get confused and I'm someone with access to some of the best doctors. I've I picked your brain over lunch a million times. I have access to some of the latest literature. And you're sending me Your pubmed studies like I get confused with some of the stuff so I can't imagine agean how overwhelming it is for other people. I WANNA start kind of at the beginning now. It seems like everyone is talking about gut health these days. What do they mean when we're talking about gut health? What are we looking for in terms of a healthy gut that is surprisingly a hard question to answer? Now we could say someone has a healthy gut. They have no gut symptoms. I have no reflux have no bloating constipation. Diarrhea or abdominal pain. But even that it doesn't stand the scrutiny of science because we know there are some people and this has been even published in the conventional literature. WHO HAVE FOR EXAMPLE CEAC disease full blown and they will only have neurological symptoms as a manifestation of that so we can't say I have no digestive symptoms for health gut and I was also in that boat of I had a parasitic infection? Had No digestive symptoms only had brain fog insomnia fatigue depression So symptoms aren't a great measure. And then there's this test that test Johnny Lynn for leaky gut or CBO breath testing and these all have a degree of merit but none none of them are perfect and I would argue that. They actually harm the consumers more than help them because they oftentimes paint a picture of things being worse than they are an aren't aren't super clinically informative so rather I would say Regretfully there's not a good one test will tell us this but rather I would say if someone has gone on a whole thirty die and Donna. A huge step forward in terms of getting rid of energetic and inflammatory foods and they're sleeping in their exercising and they're still not well. I would look to making some tweaks to optimize your gut health as the next best intervention. Okay so when you. So when you say optimize your gut health. Are we really talking about the bacteria in your gut and making sure. They're in a healthy not balanced. You don't have too many of the bad guys and not enough of the good guys. Is that an overly simplistic but still kind of accurate way to look at it. Yes I would say it's overly simplistic sick but still generally tends to hold true. There are other things like the immune system that sometimes needs to be dampened But yes one of the things that will see. PS someone improves the health of their gut or even improves the health of their body. Because remember your gut. Bacteria grow in the environment. That is your body so if you abuse your body on healthy soil unhealthy bacteria grow if you treat your body. Well then we'll see healthier bacteria and that's also been shown they they've done some studies taking sedentary interior people tracked or Mike Obama's with serial repeat samples and what you know that period and their gut actually got healthier once they started exercising So yes the bacteria and fungus new play a pivotal role in that not exclusively but definitely part of the Mex- excellent and so how do they get messed up up in the first place you were just talking about the soil. We eat Through our vegetables in the foods that we grow having an impact. You're talking about exercise having an impact. I know stress. This has an impact on our gut bacteria. I feel like more things than you could imagine. Impact our gut. Is that true. This is absolutely true that they've even done studies. He's showing that in families that wash their dishes. With a sponge they have different micro biogas than those that. Use A dishwasher So there's so many things that your microbial That's overwhelming because now it makes me feel like I have to scrutinize every single action. I'd take and by the way is a sponge dishwasher better. Well they've shown lower incidences of allergic diseases in those at wash with sponges. Part of the the theory is that that is because it allows more bacteria to kind of build up. And they're not quite as couldn't hygienic. But we also have to be careful because it may be that more more. Wealthy families are using dishwashers. And they also may have more hygienic practices that accompany Having more economic reach reach if you will so we had to be careful observational studies. I don't want to attribute it all to the sponges but that's definitely an observation in theory. That's out there but that's really interesting because what I from what I understand to having exposure to too many bad bacteria like not washing your hands and shaking hands with a bunch of people in a crowd is problematic automatic but also being to hygenic is problematic you know having that SANITIZER on in every single surface and having everything super squeaky clean never putting a farm-animal is also problematic. Right yeah there. There's a balance to be struck there and it's not an easy balance to strike because the immune system surprise surprise is Israeli complicated but the general observation. There is certainly true that if from the one end in Third World countries grease people often have a hines a parasite infections and there's a high infant mortality death rate and we go all the way to the other hand where people are slathered in antibacterial soaps from the moment that they're born and they have reduced contact with natural environment. I'm Byron it's like soil and animals. Then that's probably going too far in somewhere in the middle is optimal. It's just trying to figure out exactly where that middle is. That's a little bit more challenging and it's really impossible isn't isn't it like. I'M NOT GONNA walk around testing my microbiology and testing my surfaces every single day I feel like if you can get pretty far into the weeds in terms of MIT. Doing the right thing for my gut in this moment and then that can be overwhelming to the point. Where you know you're actually hurting your health versus helping it exactly ackley? And there's an important distinction. We should draw. which is there's these two items? There's clinical gastroenterology meeting someone has for lack of a more scientific term messed up gut. What clinical interventions have been studied are tried and true compared to microbiology academic research which is just uh starting to piece together associations and how all of this works more academic perspective but doesn't really inform what you can do about it and this is really important because people oftentimes get pulled into all this academic nuance that doesn't translate into clinical interventions and so they flounder? Because they're they're doing clinical gastroenterology. which are these simple things that have been shown clinically effective that we can do to help improve one's gut health absolutely? So that's what we're going to focus on for the rest of this episode is the clinically effective things that are proven to help. And I don't know anybody WHO's a bigger expert in that than you are so let's go back to what you you said earlier. which is there are some obvious signs of a messed up gut as you so clinically and scientifically put it a few minutes ago right if you've got diarrhea if you've got bloating if you've got reflux if you've got stomach pain or constipation? Those are obvious signs that something's going on with your digestion but there are other signs is to that maybe have nothing to do with digestion. That could point to the gut. What are some of those? Well there's a number of them Insomnia because because that's one that I suffered with and I'll never forget but that's also been published in the peer reviewed literature depression and anxiety actually fatigue the joint problems skinner options of various sorts. And again this is where we're learning more about the connections. In the academic research the the Gut brain connection the J- The gut skin connection the gut. Join Connection Even thyroid actually. And this is one of the things where I think. There's an absolute epidemic emmerich of natural alternative providers including myself in that camp so this is not a disparagement but who are way too quick to diagnose I know someone with a quote unquote thyroid problem and give them thyroid medication. And it's disturbing. How many of these patients actually have no problem at all with their thyroid Loyd but their fatigue depression their constipation is actually being driven by a problem in the gut? And we've even gone so far as to publish a number of case studies on our website. Documenting Manning this same thing Mary sue spend a year and a half going from thyroid specialist. Thyroid specialist finally ends up in our clinic. We inform them that they're thorough. Diagnosis noses was incorrect. From the start we do some simple stuff that we'll talk about here in a moment and literally in two or three months in some of these cases and years long Bouts of symptoms are resolved and credible. It almost sounds like the guy that got health is like foundational that a lot of these other things in Psalm. Neha is not something I ever ever would have connected with the gut definitely mental health issues. I have definitely skin conditions but all of these different things. These different symptoms that appear to be unconnected did might all be rooted in have a foundation in. What's going on in your gut agreed? And that's why I try to bring people back to the recommendation of start art these pillars of Diet and lifestyle and then reevaluate. And if you're not where you WANNA be then instead of going to heavy metal toxins or mold or fiber conversion or to Saas Jerome. I would I take some time to really focus on trying optimize your gut health because you may see again the insomnia and depression. You thought was from thyroid would actually goes away because it was likely being driven by the gun right it so it's really interesting. I would imagine because your doctor I would imagine if I said to you. How do I WANNA start like my gut health? I would assume that you would say well. Come to me and do a bunch of lab tests and we'll see what's going on with your boop but you have a different approach and I like your approach crouch. What's your approach? Well I. I used to order the testing that everyone would think Dr Order and after years and years as I started saying boy doesn't matter if this test is a little high here or a little low there or that test shows X. or Y.. I ended up doing a lot of the same mm stoff and it turns out that many of the treatments in natural medicine can be administered without meeting test and that many of the tasks that are being used in functional medicine actually have not been scientifically validated. So they're just pretty influential and so you you can actually get pretty far down the road of gut health intervention. You can do on your own without doing any testing and it's really important. Understand Dan this because patients will come in say doc. I'm so sick of this depression of this joint pain of this insomnia. I'll do anything well..

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