Gary, Coordinator, Richard Clarke discussed on Money Matters with Gary Goldberg


Listening to Gary on money matters and every once in a while I have a wonderful opportunity as the host of money matters to talk with somebody who has an impact on our country that individual is my next guest Richard Clarke who is the former national coordinator for security infrastructure protection and counterterrorism he worked for a number of our presidents and he has written a great book which I did read most of Richard this weekend is called the fifth domain welcome to the program thank you thank you for reading it it was a pleasure I couldn't put it down actually and that's unusual but you and your co author Robert Kannaki you say in the book some very important things including the next big war is probably going to take place in cyberspace and not on the ground that's quite a statement can you elaborate on it for my audience Richard well I think we say it'll start in cyberspace it because leaders serve well think it's easier than and less lethal to fight in cyberspace yeah just a few weeks ago the president trump was about to launch missiles and bombs against Iran you remember this and and instead he says all week let's just do a cyber attack so leaders think here let's let's not as bad as it is a quote real war of quote what is that nations can respond to cyber attacks against them with conventional attacks in fact the Israelis did that I think in June with Hamas was attacking them in cyberspace the Israelis said though the heck with this we don't want to deal with this let's just bomb them and so the launch of US sixteens and blew up Abbas's of cyber headquarters Richard I'm the I'm the head of the money management firm and I clearly remember what happened when a fat finger or tie people did to our stock market how vulnerable the stock market was to that flash crash you remember it I'm sure yep is this something that we have to get used to is a possibility occurring but more importantly than just the stock market what can I do to some of our missiles it is fairly well secured in fact the financial sector in general spends more money defending their networks and has more highly qualified people than any other sector of our economy leading bank of America spends more than a billion dollars a year JP Morgan spent around seven hundred million dollars H. each and every year just defending their own network so I think the stock market may be in good shape well from that code of Nick elation but you say weapons systems and you're right weapon systems are problem to the Pentagon's own defense science board and the government accountability office in weapons systems could be hacked one of the things that I have always believe this that the bad guys are always a step ahead of us because they're thinking about it well we play defense there on the offense they're planning and taking the necessary steps so when we see the activity which you I want to get into because it's in the book about what happened with nine eleven but when you see activity before an event how do we go about protecting ourselves is it possible have we set up the proper defenses at this point in time ten years ago we wrote a book called cyber war in which we said you really can't defend yourself if that was true rob Kentucky line and now reading books together again ten years later say something big is changed there are lots of major American corporations who have figured out how to defend themselves using the existing technology that we have today it didn't exist ten years ago when it does today and so some companies are what we call resilient able to take a hit and restore capability prevent most damage from occurring not all companies can do this but the bunch of companies are they don't want to attract attention to themselves so they don't like being there but there are companies that you never hear about being hacked and that's because they're not we training the next generation of cyber defenders Richard Clarke because president trump says a space force is necessary how are we actually building a cyber force which is essential in my opinion well we looked at the work force problem in the book and what we've discovered is people are coming out of community colleges and undergraduate schools and even with master's degrees today in cyber security at a pretty good rate that's because the market strivings on their own there are really well paying jobs and there are a lot of jobs in cyber security what we lack or the the the qualified managers of the people who run the the networks in terms of cyber security they're hard to get the really good ones and they demand high salaries well we are we are turning up a number of people today including people going into the government and going into the office I want to go back in time to just prior to the unfortunate nine eleven events you actually brought forth some information that was not paid attention to and I'm simplifying this but can you tell the audience what was going on before nine eleven that you brought to the attention of the administration well when the bush administration came into office no within forty eight hours I gave them a plan to attack al Qaeda and bin laden and I answered urgent meetings to prove that plan I think they thought I was crazy they hadn't heard about okay in the level of detail that we would be in the government knew about it and the bush people have their own priorities and dealing with al Qaeda was model so it took them months like nine months to get around to thinking about it by then it was it was too late so yeah I was I was mad at that I will really be male one point of said look if you don't do something about this hundreds of Americans are going to be dead lying in the streets unfortunately I was right unsourced news thousands yeah that's the sad part you initially offered an apology to the families of nine eleven and said that the government had actually failed them and you ask for forgiveness how is that received at the time by the government the White House matter for apologetic I said no like with the government and failed belied sales and the the bush White House so so I have no authority to do that I want to now go back to your book because the fifth domain is a fascinating read because I quite frankly do not know much about cyberspace the average person doesn't know anything about cyberspace unless you're in that field the biggest concern you have if you were to itemize the top three concerns that Richard Clarke an expert in cyber security has can you list them for us what we do in the book of the book is written for not log exports of love love technical book I think our first here is that the Russians will manipulate of the twenty twelve election of the way they manipulated twenty sixteen election technique but that they'll they'll come after us again we're also concerned with the things like the power grid and a lot of the gas pipelines can be attacked there was a lot of saying it it's the head of US intelligence Dan coats of saying that publicly the Russians can get into our power grid no we don't know what happened to the other night in the in the west side and it in Times Square with attack there's no definitive word yet what happened the would any of us in the business be surprised if that were the Russians playing around no well the Russians have done it in Ukraine twice that we know of at the head of U. S. intelligence publicly says we could do it here so I think that's I think that's a concern we have about two minutes left unfortunate we said two hours left to talk with you but what else is it that we need to that's your biggest concern but I think number three is our weapons systems of the government accountability office the defense science board say our weapons systems are fancy expensive weapons systems like the F. thirty five hundred point of the patriot missile they could be hacked well that they have inadequate cyber security so one day when we may have to use them an interview would be able to get through the back door and shot the loss of we just need to pay more attention to this stuff building security from the start not added on after the fact is that she thought she should the average person in America lose sleep over this or is it your opinion under control it's not but the good news is that some companies have secured themselves and the average person can too we have a whole chapter in the book about all the things the individual could do to make sure the way our cyber secure the name of the book is the fifth domain and it is in my opinion a must read I'm gonna finish reading it tonight I did not read the entire book but probably three quarters of it and it is not for people who were free it won't let me put it this way it is for people who want to understand in real terms what is going on it is not for the technicians it's a real interesting book for the average person Richard Clark this is been indeed a pleasure I wish you well and keep us informed about what else is making you concerned with your next book thank you very much I hope you enjoyed the opportunity here from a man whose expertise is beyond most of ours he has devoted his career to protecting people he's not a book writer he's a person who has really been an adviser to the administration's going back over number of presidents president Reagan Clinton Obama the bushes so I was in Russia last week and walking down the streets of St Petersburg you'd never know that they're potentially or realistically our enemy it was almost like Paris but behind the scenes let's not forget that Russia and the United States are not buddies we'll be back in just a moment you're listening.

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