Listen: Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Ukraine discussed on WSJ What's News
"Before lawmakers today for day four of the public hearings on the impeachment inquiry a Song Linda's the US ambassador to the European Union and a key figure in the Ukraine controversy in his testimony. He said that he worked with President. Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Rudy. Giuliani to arrange a White House visit for the Ukrainian President and exchange for investigations into Barack Obama and the twenty sixteen Democratic National Committee. Super Hack. I know that members of this committee frequently frame. These complicated issues in the form of a simple question was there a quid pro. Oh quo as I testified previously with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting the answer is yes Mr Giuliani conveyed secretary. Perry Ambassador Volker and others that president trump wanted a public statement from President Solanki Alinsky committing to investigations of Barista and the two thousand sixteen election. Joining me now with more details is Wall Street Journal reporter shelby the holiday shelby. We heard a lot from sunland just in his opening testimony today where he admitted there was a quid pro quo. Connect the DOTS here for us. What what are the major takeaways from that testimony? So that was a big moment when he emphatically said this White House meeting was conditioned on Ukraine announcing investigations and that also also brought up another interesting point that he said he never heard about talk of Ukraine having to start investigations are complete them. It was only about announcing investigations investigations. That is what Rudy Giuliani and president. Trump really wanted he said the quid pro. Quo was directed by Rudy Giuliani. And he also said what many many witnesses have told us which was that. President trump directed not just ambassadors online but special envoy Kurt Volker and Energy Secretary Rick. Perry to work with Rudy. Giuliani president. Trump wanted Giuliani to sort of take the charge on this so in his testimony ambassador. Sunlen said we didn't necessarily want to work with Rudy. But we understood that we had to if we we wanted to get something done on Ukraine. Let's actually hear a piece of that where he says that he did name a lot of names today. Secretary Perry Ambassador Volker Holkar and I worked with Mr Rudy. Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the United States. We did not want to work with Mr Giuliani simply put. We were playing the hand we were dealt so shelby. It says he was acting in good faith and that he wasn't initially aware of any improper behavior. So that's true. He said he was doing what the president told him. He also said he didn't realize as the investigation into Barack Obama meant an investigation into the Biden's at least not earlier on in the summer that raised a lot of questions for Democrats but he maintained contain that you know he's under oath. He said that before he wasn't backing away from that but he does acknowledge in hindsight that. That's what that meant. And he said when he saw the Biden's name come up on the phone call he realizes in hindsight Barista's Biden's but he also defended claims that he was somehow working in regular channel with Giuliani. We've heard a lot of people critical. I love this quote unquote irregular channel. And he said I'm not sure how someone could characterize it as irregular when you're talking to the president you're talking to the secretary of state the national security advisor the the chief of staff. He brought emails and text messages. That show he was keeping everyone in the loop on this push for investigations and so it brought a lot of people people much closer to the heart of this heart of this investigation. What have we heard from Giuliani and president trump in response to today's testimony so president trump actually came out on the White House lawn while the hearing was going on and he had written some notes down in those notes? Were what Sunland said President. Trump's response ons was to a phone call on then called and said what do you want and president trump said I want nothing from Ukraine no quid pro quo no no quid pro quo and trump read. Read this comment again. Even though saw was saying this in this very public televised hearing president trump came out also emphasized that which points to his defense that president trump in phone conversations denied this existence of quid pro quo Guiliani took to twitter and also said no quid pro quo. He also said his involvement in all of this began with special. Sean boy. Kurt volkers request. We know that's not necessarily true because Giuliani himself and said that he became interested in the Ukraine investigations. Back last November. He's he's been working on this for nearly a year but he distanced himself from sunland and said we had very little contact with them. And sunland is just speculating now. sunlen before this a public hearing he had revised his earlier testimony which was behind closed. Doors is that now calling his testimony from today in public into question will that is. That's a fair question because a lot of people were wondering whether or not you could take him seriously whether or not. He'd be credible. If he already had to amend his testimony and and that amended testimony was very significant can he came back and later said Oh I do remember telling the Ukrainians that they would get the aid if they announced investigations. That's that's huge in terms of this investigation today. He tried to clarify why he mended testimony and he tried to defend himself by saying he wants to provide more accurate testimony. He just has basically been blocked blocked by the White House from accessing phone records his State Department emails State Department documents. He said he's not a note taker. But hearing some of the testimony from his colleagues says jogged his memory so we'll see if Democrats and Republicans alike. Take him take him at his word or make any effort to get those documents during a break in testimony earlier today House Intelligence Committee Chair Adam. Schiff called silenced testimony quote among the most significant evidence to date. Where does this leave us? Well after today. I think you'll hear a lot more questions of people very high up. In the trump administration secretary of state POMPEO Secretary of energy. Rick Perry the Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. All of their names were brought into this today and again not not just with testimony but with emails and with text messages for now Democrats have two more witnesses that they're going to hear from tomorrow. It's unclear if they'll call more they'll just stop and say we have what we need There was this big phrase used in the hearing today which was two plus two equals four and Psalm. Lynn never said that he spoke with President trump about the aid to Ukraine. This nearly four hundred million dollar aid Ukraine crane but he did say I presumed because everything else with respect to Ukraine was held up. And we're at this log jam. I presumed at the military aid Ukraine was also conditioned on the announcement Smith of investigations and so two plus two equals four. That was a phrase. The Democrats used in Sunland liked it. Went along with it. Republicans hit back inside. Yeah in mathematics. Two plus two equals four but your presumptions to presumptions plus two presumptions domonique will affect and the fact is president trump denied quid pro pro quo and they seem to still be focused on the fact that president trump in conversations with the ambassador Sunland never said there was a quid pro quo. He denied it. And I think that's where you'll see. Republicans and Democrats continued to differ. All right certainly more to come Wall Street Journal reporter Shelby Holiday Joining me here in our studio in New York. Thank you so much. Thank thank you for our full coverage of the impeachment hearings please head to our website wsj.com or the WSJ APP. First of all. I WanNa say the fact of the matter is let me tell you why by by the way by the way they were. If you've heard any of the twenty twenty presidential."