UK, Vincent Bugliosi, United States discussed on Night Call
Of the sixties with co-authored. Dan Dan pipe and bring bring bring welcome. Tom Thank you thanks for having me. Thanks for having us. Thanks for taking us on this journey. people were suggesting chaos to us before we even picked it as a book club book. They were like you. Just talk about this book on your show because he talked about all the things in it anyway and then we all just crunched it Thank you guys. Crunched eat finished it today. Perhaps we went on a spree. This is our book club. Pick This month Patriot and molly had already read it. She's been on a Manson journey Laurel Canyon journey also so she read the book but then Emily and I had about two weeks weeks so in a way it worked out really well because we to became very obsessive choice. I feel horrible farmers farmers monster. No it was we all I think. Highly recommend yeah. Very nice call book and it's it's super readable But it also leaves you feeling feeling so confused yet tells. Doing just for readers aren't familiar with the book yet. If you just like give us we were saying. This is probably hard but the elevator. Pitch this massive book about conspiracies and you know graphs charts and everything else that you've put together. What did didn't begin as a conspiracy? Book began as a magazine assignment that was supposed to commemorate the then thirtieth anniversary of the crimes ninety nine and I was just looking at different ways to make that story interesting because it had been written to death. Obviously and I didn't even want to do it but I took it. And the Kinda elevator pitches. I went down a rabbit hole and never got out for years twenty years. Twenty yeah exactly interviews. We set a thousand because we decided if I told the truth number. I'd look even more and it's also how do you define the interview you. Is it like a so many people hung up on me or shut doors on my face but I get one sentence from them before but multiple couple thousands of people that I returned to and interviewed again and again Who agreed to talk at almost got into a thousand probably the one hits or some of them? Yeah they weren't the pleasant ones and there's so much that didn't end up in the book but what happened was I found out that the prosecutor Security Vincent Bugliosi who became famous at the trial and with his book helter skelter which to this day as the number one true best selling took crime book of all time. Let's say he cut some corners. That's a polite way but the true way as he suborn perjury during the during the case and hid evidence fabricated evidence manipulator witnesses threaten people etc.. And when I found that out in the beginning like in the first year that's when things started taking a Lotta detours and I started uncovering other stuff connected to other historical events and found out that there was a good possibility that there were darker forces at work than just crazy quote unquote. hippy guy. who was telling his followers what to do for them? That might explain it. Yeah I mean I think one of the things that sets this book apart is how much your voice and your own skepticism about what you're reporting comes through and just you know. Oh by the time you're starting to get into the chaos nation or even in your in the moment you're like Oh God I'm getting into the nation. It just has this thing of a you know. Now you can see you know the next year reporting or more relate ability to for us all. We've all done some interviewing just the idea of getting addicted to interviewing people obsessed with just sort of reporting getting addicted to the reporting especially when you're like freelance journalist doing celebrity interviews. Some of US also may have been trying to do something more important. You're like oh I gotta like that's going to be the thing that's GonNa get me out of this. Yeah exactly well. You also got your haircut three times just to give you a source. Yes One of the stylist to the stars. Little Joe who charged a lot of money but my magazine which doesn't exist anymore. I think I put them out of business. To Premiere was a monthly film magazine. Eggs in there. They were the ones that have signed it. I had an expense account so I told them before. I you know I always would take people for meals and stuff like that but that seemed the lot was one hundred telling tales of like a land far away. None of us have ever magazines give you a budget. And they're like well they didn't they did in this case but it wasn't you hit the wall. It wasn't anomaly that they let me we do that. Because I got the editor in chief as obsessed as I was and as desperate to get out of I think entertainment journalism because he really believed believed in the story. Yeah but the expense account that I got from premier. I ended up having to reimburse them for all those hundred dollar haircuts and everything else in the whole thing thing fell apart in the process of reimburse you. Hey there's no premier anymore that's actually. We'll talk about that with the. What point did you become obsessed enough and have enough information? That was new that you could get your editor in chief to agree agree that this was worth really just a couple months and really I had some big breaks couple months in but then you know stuff what kind of level off and and then something else would happen. It was a magazine story for almost two years. I think eighteen months after I missed the first three month deadline. Jim The editor in chief. Who believe in this and really? I wouldn't be sitting here now if he hadn't he just gave me an open contract. He paid me monthly to keep keep reporting cyber report back to him every month or two you know. We blew the thirtieth anniversary deadline in the beginning. And it wasn't until well. He got fired from the corporate honors. For let's say probably the story that the new guy came in and said we want it in a month or two and at that point I obtained a book agent and I said I. I can't report this stuff now because giving too much away without the answers so give it another couple of years. Give me a book deal. Now will reimburse premier and he said I can get you out of your obligation to them but later we'll have to resolve that there's now so this was originally supposed to be as you said a thirtieth anniversary story and now it's a fiftieth anniversary story. And so you know it being an anniversary year ear of the tate labianca murders and The trial and everything. You know it's been very much in the air. Your book as part of a bunch of stuff that's been came out about the fifth of the move. I have to say that reading your book really put that movie in a new light for me of like it being just such a fairy tale especially with regards to just Sharon and what was going on with her personally. At the time made a lot of sense to me. You know that the maybe a pregnant woman wouldn't WanNa be living like a party house right especially with that kind of violence that I feel like in some of the other books have. We've been reading the family by Ed Sanders as well. Just that you know they sort of gloss over that aspect of it more because Polanski was still sort of playing the the grieving husband husband time. Obviously there's been other things about Polanski that yeah I feel like a lot of. It is a sort of armchair psychology not. Everybody has the Roman Polanski just being this like store narrowly fucked up person who had a lot of fucked up stuff happened to him but also obviously did a lot of fucked up stuff and you know wanting need to understand him as a victim in that in that moment just because it was so horrific obviously so much more complicated moment where it's like. Oh it wasn't the end of if the innocence interesting about the Sheringham Rome and stuff is the UK publishers. which was is Penguin Random House ironically the same company that sued me when I didn't deliver became a book deal? This is all in the book if your listeners I read it About seven years into that deal the same thing happened the publisher pull the plug on. It cancelled the project and that was devastating and then they assuming for a return of the advance which is our but When we sold it in twenty seventeen to little brown penguin someone actually the same publisher who had sued me and that had taken two years to resolve? Were the first ones to make an offer for. It didn't make any sense gasoline uh-huh and they offered exactly as much as little brown did and I said to my agent. I can't even consider this unless they offer more or as a sign of good faith and he said that's reasonable. I said how much more and I said. Don't tell them but I'd be happy with five or ten grand. Just you know something symbolic symbolic. They wouldn't even be that and I told him to go to hell so then they're UK branch the UK rights of this. You you know So they published it there and the only thing they're lawyers had a problem within the book and it was a serious problem with everything about Roman mistreating Sharon and really. Yeah so well I hate to admit this I had I had to give in to the lawyers over there. The libel laws are much stronger and he successfully sued advantage for. I think we've seen also that one of the ways that people keep stories like that out of the press is by being like well it's unprovable. How did Weinstein keep anyone one from reporting on that on his being a rapist for so long? It's because they would go after anyone who intimated anything being with him seems so futile because even as recently as last week there was another rape allegation against Ryan Plants got in touch a woman. Got In touch with me a lot of people that are kinda crazy. Get in touch with me since the book has come out and this woman sounds legit some press. She says she was raped by him in Hollywood they would when she was fifteen. And you know she's been sending me stuff like that but they were so scared of him over there are that I'll tell all of your people if they're in I don't know if you have listeners in the UK tried to get the United States versions if they read Polish Polish even the Poland version. which is you know his home country and we saw that quickly to the Rights they didn't ask for any changes just a UK Socks the UK liable. Laws are hard because I feel like they published crazy things the tabloids but that was the compromise. I had to make so if if your listeners are going to get the book on there in the UK. I don't know how easy it is to buy an American version on Amazon. I mean I imagine it's more shipping vs get that one one. Maybe you can download the American version. Give it away. I'm speaking of lawsuits. How many so I know like bouillaud see threatened right and you know he? He basically said you'll be working for me the rest of your life and to Penguin and who were still my part was still my publisher. Then he said I will own your company every prophet any of your books made in perpetuity. My family will l.. If you publish this book so yeah. He was trying to scare me. I would like to corroborate that he is a crank according according to a friend of mine who worked at the Lumley Pasadena love these store and he said Bugliosi would come in and like throw a fit at the staff and be like. Don't you know who I yeah really. Yeah like all the time and be like read Voltaire. Oh my Lord just mentally ill I truly believe well all all this stuff about you know all everything that came out when he was running for for a and there were two different yeah cases he was involved in and he he was running for office. I mean he was Kinda like trump is now I mean he was just fearful of repercussions and thought he was above the law and the Milkman KS as the mistress case both really were the reasons he didn't he might not have won anyway because everybody in Los Angeles especially in in law enforcement take the. DA's office knew he was crazy he was only there. People don't understand that he was only there like six years left as soon as he finished his case because he wanted to be the more famous Compton who is famous I forget what they called managing..