Story. Yeah i Funny enough my family's not horse related that all. They have nothing to do with it. But i grew up down the road from somare farm. Who foldout princess omar. They're running and betsy. Helton and bernie houghton. And i started working there when i was ten. And just doing like the farm. You know work stuff cleaning halters and mucking stalls and they actually taught me to gallup at thirteen and i had been doing some kind of like riding ponies and doing some showing and stuff but the minute i gaza resource i knew it was gonna be racehorses forever so they got me into it and i ended up at jonathan's a couple of years later and School in my first turtles. I guess at some stage with him and kinda the rest is history went through the ranks in his his stable. So when you when you start writing at the time. Did you kind of think like i'm going to be a writer. This is going to be my career. Did you know that you the training was maybe in the in the future. Yeah always loved the training. I kind of knew early on. I didn't know what capacity or what it would look like. But i kinda always knew. I wanted to be a trainer. It wasn't until i actually started. I wrote jump races for a little while. When we're working for jonathan for like four years and and i enjoyed the writing but i knew i was never going to be wasn't striving to be champion jockey or anything like that. It was kind of doing it more. Just have it on my resume and everything and when jonathan started to slow down a bit and look to me a little bit more for more you know help in the barn and whatnot. That was kinda my opportunity that and that was twenty nineteen. I stopped riding focused more on helping him. You know with the training and then started to kind of really see. This is the way it was hopefully going. And you know i would. I have the owners behind me and at some stage you know. I was hoping happened. It didn't quite happen. I thought it would but nonetheless You know here. I am now. It's interesting i think one thing. A lot of our listeners might not realize is how much the assistant trainer a lot of times is a big communicator with clients and owners and kind of doing that business side of things as well as the the horse side of things i mean i know many owners who talked to the assistance just as much if not more than the actual trainer. Yeah and that's that was a huge thing that really you know have really benefited me. But jonathan last year especially between health issues and covert and whatnot. He was never even in the barn. So twenty twenty. It was mainly it was just me in the barn his program in his training and whatnot. But it was just me. And i over the years. Jonathan allowed me to creep. You know good relationships with his owners but you know that season twenty twenty which we were champion trainer that the last year you know i got to be very close with all of the owners and you know i think i earned their respect and everything else to win it kind of came time. When he announced retirement. I was in ireland. You know i had to call them and just call the owners and ask them you know. Could i keep their horses at the house. You know currently in the barn in pennsylvania with jonathan. Can you know. Could i take them to fair hill. I had my assistant at the time with. Set it up and i couldn't leave. Ireland couldn't leave those horses there and luckily all these owners they never never wavered at all. I mean absolutely you know. They're yours the train. So i was very lucky in. Obviously he worked for a barn like that for a long time. Any favorite moments or big races from your time in the shepherd born Yeah my so many but I would say probably. Winston see winning. You know the dismiss of turf writers in twenty nineteen and and winning clips award that year. That was all a pretty exciting sort of you know endeavor we were on with that with with him and he still had a minor setback and he won't run this year but i still have to train which is which is also very exciting so at colonial each week we we've seen horses who alternate between jumping and flat. There was in fact one coming in this week. I think who's coming off a win over the flat and their win over the jumps but are they trained similarly you know or or dr. Okay i think. A lot of people that misconception. A lot of people think it's like so different and it's not especially this day and age by jumping as the jump racing has gotten got the flat track as you see at colonial they no longer jump the last fence on the stand Which turns it into a sprint. Well you have to have a fast or you have to train them to be fast per se so i mean i worked my horses fi the saratoga horses they worked five eighth and one at one On saturday you know they. They trained just like like a flat. Horse does really. It's not much different. They might do a couple of far dollops in their week. compared to what a flat horse would do but for the most part like you need them to be just a speedy so You know some people think. Oh if they're too slow take him dumping at this stage. That's not what you look for anymore because you do have to be somewhat fast to run over john as well yeah. I think we've had two horses. This meet the vulture ones jessica's tapped on top. That have been you know. Jump in their last start and one here on the flat and both have been turf routes from off the pace and fitness obviously became a. Yeah and i mean. I i would have been one of those people and probably wasn't till two weeks ago who would have just dismissed it and thought like well. This horse hasn't been running on the flat so there's no way it's it's ready for that race in apparently not the case. No it's not the case. It's it's a funny but it. It definitely is definitely true You know they train very similarly and a lot of them do both you know very successfully. Are there certain characteristics of a flat horse that will make you say he or she might be really good over the jumps. I always look for obviously no brainer. You look for long on the car. That's kind of the first thing. But that doesn't mean dirt's fine too doesn't mean they can't run on the turf but you look on the but really dirt or turf. I always look for horse. It's always running late and he's always run out of room that always seems to be the that's the telltale signs look at breeding and you can get all of that but i always horse. That's been maybe fourth third second and always just seems to run out of room. They're normally the one that just want that extra in a couple of speed bumps. Well i really appreciate coming on carrier. It's fun to like. I said it's been a learning process for me. It calling and watching the jump races before and wish you the best of luck up at saratoga of folks wanna find you on twitter. You're at keri k. R. i one four five. Thank you so much appreciate it right. We'll be right back after a short time out of horseracing. Podcast brought to you by twin. Spires this is the jason beam horseracing podcast brought to you by twin spires. Big thanks carrie. Brian join us..