Katie Lyons Sutton, London, Baptist Church discussed on The World
And if you're just joining us, my guests is Barbara Brown Taylor when she was first on fresh air. It was after she'd written a memoir about leaving her work as the rector of a small church in the foothills of the Appalachians in Georgia, and she is an ordained episcopal priest. She left the church, you left being a practicing priest to become a professor of the world religions at Piedmont college and her new book is about teaching the world's religions affected her students and how I changed her. And that book is called holy envy. Finding God in the faith of others. So, you know, it's interesting you've dedicated your life to move practicing and studying religion, your parents believed in higher education, not a higher power. They discouraged you from pursuing religion to was it an act of rebellion. When you joined a church. I think it was. And I think like any child if you're parents point you away from something that becomes the most interesting thing, but I also had a kind of. I wouldn't call it a God hunger. Then but in a way, they freed me. It was wonderful because none of the threats of the early youth. Ministers. Could get to me at all if I misbehaved and they threatened to call my parents. I said go ahead. My parents think I'm crazy to be here. Anyhow, so it was very freeing in terms of of that. But I whatever it was it started early in my life of hunger for the beyond for the transcendent for the the light within the light, the the glow within the grass the sparkle within the water. And I think that went from kind of nature mysticism to looking for other ways in which. That was articulated by people. So I was Bill Ford. I guess your early years growing up your early childhood was in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. What religion will you expose to as young child? I was exposed in Tuscaloosa to the episcopal church because I was confirmation age twelve thirteen and my best friend's father was the rector of that church, and he was very brave during the civil rights movement. When the university of Alabama was integrating for the first time. So that got my attention as a young person an adolescent who was already familiar with social Justice besides being acted out. In in that. Church before that, my parents had taken me to a Methodist church for a year that was in Dublin, Ohio. So I also had a wonderful experience there. But after that, I went on and visited quite a number of places with friends ending up in the Baptist church. The southern Baptist version when I was sixteen where I was baptized by immersion. So having been exposed I to the episcopal church, and now, you're an ordained, a Piscopo priest. What led you to become a southern Baptist Terry? His name was Jack. All right. I think it would be the truth would be that. I was exposed the Methodist church the episcopal church after that the Unitarians, and then the Presbyterians, and then interfaith campus ministry, and then I went to seminary and all of a sudden met professors scholars people who began to talk to me about religion in a whole different way and many of them were a Piscopo aliens. So I followed them into that church and have found it a wonderful home for me, the southern Baptist. Peace had very much to do with being a sophomore in high school and traveling with a crowd of friends who were Southern Baptists, and who in their own ways were very worried about my future with God. So they pressured me pretty hard. And it definitely matters. It my boyfriend was one of them. So he he got drafted to go to Vietnam and asked me if I would become baptized before he shipped out. And there was no way to say no to that. That's really interesting that you got baptized because of your boyfriend. So what what was the religious significance of that for you? We was that. Did it have a deep meaning for you. And you were baptized. Or are you doing it for for him? It did not have deep meaning. And and I think I'm not the only person who approaches a religious ceremony like that. And is disappointed that the heavens did not part and nothing no voice came. But I do think I did it for the wrong reasons unless loving him was a right reason and setting his mind at ease somehow, but I did not make that decision for the right reasons and less loving him was the right reason because it did set his mind at ease. But I was out of that church within the year for having behaved badly. I brought hippies to church and that turned out not. So did he survive the war and did your relationship survive? The relationship did not survive, but I was happy to learn he had survived and I believe he became an army chaplain. So he he went on and and was one of the lucky ones who came home. But no, I think things between us petered out about the time. I left the Baptist church. So you're still an episcopal priest. Although you no longer are the rector of a church and haven't been for for many years when we spoke in two thousand six you said you still wore your collar on Sundays when you go to church. Do you still wear it on Sundays? It doesn't fit anymore. And they're made out of plastic. Anyone who's tried to wear what they're really uncomfortable? Yeah. Unless you're like a really like starched cotton like a stiff cotton. Well, if you're very very aristocratic, then yes, you would wear a Lennon Cal caller and have someone who had starts for you. But I was never one of those. So now like to think now that I'm incognito undercover or something. I have a wonderful. I've had a series of wonderful bishops who've appreciated what I do well enough to to let me have a very long long, whatever line of permission to to be in churches in a variety of churches in and out of a lot of Christianity's without yanking me back. Do you have a regular place of worship? Now. I don't have a regular place of worship which has helped me realize that even in the best Christian language. The church is not one physical place at the corner of two streets. The church is a communion of people around the world in different walks of life. And on different continents who who share teachings about. What makes life meaningful and? What God wills for our relationships with each other? But I am not a regular participant who walks through the doors of a particular church on Sunday. Why not? There is only one church in the county where I live in. It's the church I served for five and a half years, and though I have good relationships with people still in that congregation whom I knew, and I hope the clergy who have served at church would say I have had good relationships with them yet when I walk through those doors, it's like going back into a part of my life that doesn't fit me anymore. And it would be like getting back into clothes that have become too small like the clergy collar has. So and there are still people there who I them back. I'm kind of time machine. Now, if I showed up more often that wouldn't happen. But all I can tell you is I go from time to time and most of the time, I don't. Okay. You know, have been wonderful to talk with you. Thank you so much. You're so wonderful to ask me these questions. I had all my answers preferred two different questions. So. Isn't it? Great that you won't be graded. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, I'm going to think a lot about the heaven and hell being the a and the F. Barbara brown. Taylor is the author of the new memoir. Holy envy. Finding God in the faith of others. After a break. John powers will review a new three part British crime series. The John says is different from nearly all of today's crime shows. This is fresh air. This is fresh air when the three part crime series manhunt, aired in the UK in January one person in seven watched it based on a true story the show stars Martin clones as a London police detective who leads a team tracking down a serial killer are critic at large. John powers has seen manhunt which begins streaming today on acorn TV and says, it's very different from nearly all of today's TV crime shows. It has become the nature of television to ramp up everything even things that don't need it like murder. We've grown so accustomed to seeing hot button crimes in high-powered cops. Then it feels almost radical when a crime show goes in the other direction and plays. It straight such a show is manhunt a new three part series on the popular. Anglophiles streaming service e corn TV. Based on the true story of a serial killer working in and around Twickenham in south west London. The show became a smash hit when it aired in the UK a couple of months ago. It takes a murder that became a tabloid spectacle and transforms it into a deaf primer on the unspectacular reality of police work. The story begins in two thousand four when a man walking by Twickenham green spots. Emily. A twenty two year old French student who's been attacked when she dies. Scotland Yard signs the murder case to detective chief inspector Collins Sutton, a low key tenacious, man. Played by Martin plumes. Best known as the star of doc Martin whose face your recognized if you've ever turned on PBS during a pledge drive. It's a big case, it becomes even bigger when both the press and the cops start noticing similarities between families murder and the earlier unsolved murder of another young blonde woman. But there are no witnesses were smoking guns. And so along with his sidekick detective sergeant Joe brunt played by Katie Lyons Sutton in his team said about the laborious work of interviewing neighbors, and almost literally beating the bushes defined physical evidence here Sutton addresses his team after divers recover some of his possessions in the nearby river. Thames clues that gives some idea of the killers movements. Blocked with the river Thames gave up a house keys a purse and a CD player that's not locked after sticking to your guns. But we still haven't found a fungal back. Search is ongoing. So we know that she was attacked around ten o'clock on Twickenham green. We know our phone went off line at ten twenty three Walton when it was dumped in the river. So we know he's in a vehicle, we know we went from the green so wanted, and we know way, but we don't always know. But there's only a certain number ways you could make that journey in twenty minutes. And we didn't find out which one he took how? CCTV examining that footage is an even vaster tasks that it may sound for in London. CCTV cameras are like Starbucks in American cities completely in escape -able. Now before the show I'd never even heard of these killings, but over there, the case was so notorious that pretty much everybody already knew the name of the thug who committed them, and so men becomes less. A who done it then how catch him it unfolds in the same patient stylistically unflashy way as the Oscar winning film spotlight in which a group of Boston Globe. Reporters crack open that city's Roman Catholic sex abuse scandal. The action is anchored, by Sutton, who has pointedly not extraordinary, although he possesses a hint of charisma, he doesn't bristle with genius like Benedict. Cumberbatch Sherlock doesn't wax metaphysical? Like, Matthew, mcconaughey? Intruder -tective doesn't hit the bottle like Helen Mirren in prime suspect. Though, he does enjoy a glass of wine with his wife Louise, nicely played by Claudie Blakely who works for the police in Surrey and thinks your husband doesn't take recruiter seriously. With his Wendy is and sardonic mouth. Clones is ideal for characters who are more awkward than suave and a certain he gives a wonderfully modulated portrait of a good solid. Copper who stubborn doggedness makes him an annoying boss and a frustrating husband. But sometimes also the kind of honorable chap who will go to France to apologize to Emily's. Parents for Scotland Yard's failure to nab the serial killer before he murdered their daughter. Every crime show presents a vision of the world often these days a dark one manhunt is one of the rare dramas that deliberately celebrates collective action over individual brilliance. It shows how through hard incremental often tedious work a team of investigators are able to crack tricky case in the world. We actually live in, you know, the one in which no CSI lab in Las Vegas can miraculously solve every crime. Nothing's your utopian Sutton's. Underlings grown at the worke demands. There's a wise acre who second guesses his decisions and the impatient. Sutton himself. Tosses fire on the rivalry between the London police and their counterpart in Surrey both of which want to control the investigation. Wise to the politics of police bureaucracy Lewis warns him that if he doesn't catch serial killer. The failure will be an albatross around his neck. Yet, despite this manhunt is reassuring to watch and not only because Sutton and company do catch the killer who I'm happy to say isn't romanticized or made somehow colorful, the show champions an idea of the social contract that has fallen out of fashion. It suggests that even though monstrous things do happen, if ordinary flawed people pulled together common decency can still prevail. John powers reviewed the crime series manhunt. Which is now streaming on acorn TV tomorrow on fresh air. My guest will be the near at times deputy counsel, David mccraw. We'll talk about issues he's faced during the Trump presidency. When he says the war over press freedom is about the very nature of truth as the newsroom lawyer, he's dealt with the publication of WikiLeaks documents and sexual assault allegations against Harvey Weinstein lawsuits kidnappings personal threats against reporters and more. He has a new memoir. I hope you'll join us..