Felt it was just a vanity project about Driscoll. And how wonderful is it? It's been a little Bible study that grace and I started in our living room 15 years ago. Now is this great, glorious evidence of Jesus resurrection. If Jesus is dead, there were also a few who observed a sense of cognitive dissonance. That it was a cold, rainy morning, that the stadium was three fourths empty. And yet, there was all this energy coming from the stage and the loudspeakers. The presence of celebrities. The hype from Driscoll, it just felt kind of forced, and out of step with the Mars hill that they knew. Come on down. Give your life to Jesus. Let's get back to us. And throw a big resurrection party. Would you like to sing? Marcel would you like to sing? How about you? Would you like to sing? Jesus rose? Please rise bastard. These people want to see. I think the arc peaks probably a quest. This is Nate Burke, who was Driscoll's executive assistant, and essentially his chief of staff. I had concerns before then for sure, a lot of us did. I mean, even the fact that we pulled quest off with relatively short period of time. And it burned a ton of people out. But I remember being there and thinking, you know, this is going to go one of two ways. He's going to either walk out there and feel humbled by this thing that he started in his living room. And it's going to be like, wow, 17,000 people amazing. Or he's going to go out there and be like, conquered. Seattle check. Did it? And unfortunately, it was the latter. If there was a feeling of mission accomplished in Seattle, then it made sense that Driscoll would start to redirect his energies beyond the city. But he'd also need a different approach, and over time, a new team. One less rooted in, and perhaps less committed to the city itself. Ready to retool and build a new kind of machine that could expand globally. Unbeknownst to all of them, a key player was already on the scene who had the capacity to do just that. Though he hadn't been hired for that purpose. Nate met him a little later that day. And I interestingly, then we went over to a Mariners game and throughout the first pitch, which was pretty funny. You know, I got to do that, but then I sat down next to you and met something that was the day. Sutton is something Turner. He'd just been hired to work for Jamie monson, the executive pastor. And that really the wheels really started to come off at that point. The arrival of Sutton on that day is a landmark for a number of former Mars hill staff. Because for some, he became just as much a villain as Driscoll on those final years. He was hired by Jamie Munson, the executive pastor, to be the church's general manager, which meant he was supposed to be running operations like finance, facilities and HR. But within just a few weeks, Jimmy would resign. Some thought because of burnout from pulling off quest field. Sutton would overnight be promoted to executive pastor. And the contrast between a guy like Sutton and a guy like Nate is kind of a metaphor for the transition, the church was undergoing in that season. If you look at Sutton's resume, for instance, it's a CEO over and over, including work throughout the Middle East. He'd primarily come to Seattle not for the job, but because of the church's ministry, he wanted to learn, grow spiritually, and have been listening to Mars hills teaching online. When he saw a position available at the church he applied for it, and he got hired. And then he got thrown in the deep end and highly dysfunctional organization. Nate, on the other hand, was the consummate Mars hill insider. You know, I mean, I remember being at places where especially traveling in Jesse talks about this too, where it's like, if we were there, or if I was there, whoever we were the representations of the Marshall man, right? And king of fresh Pennsylvania or wherever the heck or London or South Africa or wherever it was, and I remember him describing hitting all of the merciless man's like he's tatted up, you know, he does squats and he's carrying a baby and I'm like, he's just described me. And there's kind of like at some point you're like, oh, that's cool, you know? I'm like, I'm cool, guy. And then at some point you start realizing like, I'm becoming a caricature. I'm more than that. You know, again, you play that part, as long as you play that part, you're okay. But after at some point, you start being like, oh, I'm a prop. Nate joined Mars hill in that second area of the church. About 2004. When they were still deeply invested in their identity as a church inn and four Seattle. He'd been a musician and a bunch of indie and punk rock bands. He had the tattoos. He liked MMA. He started off volunteering as a musician, and eventually came on staff as an administrator working for Tim Smith in 2006. He was quickly on Driscoll's radar, though, and became his executive assistant, and eventually sort of like a chief of staff in 2008. And I think Nate articulates something that's an undercurrent for many people in this inner circle. Did they did this work knowing that Driscoll had his flaws, even though he was dangerous and that there was risk in being in too close proximity to him. But they believed in the work itself. The mission of the church. And in some ways, the precariousness of Driscoll was actually part of the thrill of the ride. When I think about what motivated me to get in there in the first place. And there's things that I could say that were, you know, I want to be responsible. I wanted to be a good husband. Look at that. All the usual stuff. I wanted to be a man that was respected. You know, those kinds of things. There's other motivations for other people within the and everyone's got their thing. And I guess it was some of them are, but I can just tell you for me, a big part of my motivation had to do with fear. And it had to do with this feeling of I didn't want to be afraid. I didn't want fear to rule me. And it's been a lifelong theme, you know? And some people wrestle with that more than others, I suppose. But part of my reaction to it is to go into it. And to try to prove to myself that I'm not afraid or to somehow master it. So when I took the job with Mark, my thinking was the closer to Caesar, the greater the fear. If there's a job that no one else really wants, that everybody else is too scared to do, that's the one I want to do. And I think that spirit by the end, it just got out of control..