You started you got your Reggie parks title and you started working, you know, making these titles for the indie shows. What was kind of your first big break in making belts? I think probably getting to be friends with Jerry Lawler. He was the first guy to ever put anything that I did on television, which was at the time really just fixing up some of his old belts. But he believed in me. And gave me a chance and, you know, there was no big initiation, no big wall, can you do this or can you do that? It was like, okay, I've seen your stuff. Hey, man, take these USWA tag team belts and put them on new leather for me and polish them. I don't like that paint scheme. We've changed that for me too. And that kind of thing. And so we started there until it was time to start replacing valves. And then that's where I got the shot a little bit more, but it's still really started. With Jerry putting my stuff out there and being willing to do that and also endorse me to other people in the business. That we're interested in are needed some work done. So when you mentioned that like Casey, now you're fixing up the USWA tag titles. And now you have to make one I'm assuming what you said you have to make a new title or whatever it is that so are you in charge of the design of this and kind of how do you go about that? Yeah, in that case because it was a time force this is already into the late 90s, not done some other stuff outside of Memphis, really, but nothing notable. And if it was shiny and it looked good on television. Then nobody was nobody was micromanaging. And really, that's the Reggie way to, I mean, so many designs that people look at or iconic championship belt designs were an afterthought to Reggie because the classic winged eagle title they call it the Bret Hart belt or the Shawn Michaels with people you associate that winged eagle title belt with was a phone call from chief Jay strongbow to Reggie saying we want to belt where the eagle consumes the main plate. And the rest of it was Reggie and his team and it kind of in Memphis, it was the same way. It's like, we need a new USWA heavyweight belt. What can you do for us? And that was it. It was just left up to me, which was pretty easy to do in those days. There was no micromanaging. That eagle belt, the last person to ever hold. It was me. You had the bigger one. You had the Joe Marshall. Yeah, yeah, you had the bigger, you had the upgrade, the one that started with stone cold. Yeah. My gosh, too, you know, just being a championship to beat the stone cold and The Rock in one night. Come on. And the funny thing was, so for that whole time frame of being the indisputed champion, I had to carry the eagle, which you said it's the Joe until Marshall. Joe Marshall, and then there was also the WCW title as well. Which was cast off the old original Ric Flair belt. Both of them just heavy as hell. Very, very heavy. So I had to carry on, and listen, I'm not complaining, but for about four months, I had to carry both of those through the airports. And then the day I lost it to Triple H, they then gave them a brand new undisputed undisputed amalgamation of the two. I was the last guy that had to carry both. So when did you kind of graduate out of Memphis, did you go make some stuff for WCW first? Or for a bit of a year for both? I was kind of on the tail end of the WWE breakup we call it that they had become unhappy that Reggie wouldn't sign a contract. He'd never signed a piece of paper to make anybody a belt. We didn't want to start, and there were a couple of other issues there where he would make those desires for anybody that asked him. And you're talking still in a mostly pre Internet age. So I was kind of in on that stuff, but they also had Reggie's name on them and I was just the protege. So, you know, I did some stuff. I think around that time, you know, some stuff in Japan. I think GHC has started popping up global honored crown and probably sold earlier new Japan stuff and things like that, and then there's always the indie shows, which had gotten bigger and better. And so there's that. And then, gosh, NWA, TNA, UFC, from the time that the zuffa organization had fallen out UFC, they came to us. And we started making their belts, and they would order 6, and we'd finish those sticks, they over 6 more, and we did that for ten years. So that was a steady job in itself. And that kept Reggie and I both busy doing those for years. So you have that and then the meantime, TNA pops up and you do everything for them for years and WWE comes back around. And start doing stuff for them again. And in the meantime, we had collector licensing deals to make belts or WWE handmade replicas. And we did that for years. And back when you could still use the old classic logo that everybody to this day still wants and go to bootleggers for 'cause we can't legally make them anymore. Oh, yeah. So, you know, it was always something. And then you just branch out and of course this is later more recent years, but you end up doing stuff for television shows and lip sync battle television show and I will always forget Madonna, Madonna came to us and we made her a string of belts to both for album covers and for her to wear on stage during tours, including