Listen: Vermont, Burlington Police Department, Burlington discussed on The Dave Gram Show on WDEV
"It from Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham Show on W._d.. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most of you now. Here's your host Dave Graham Good Morning Vermont it is Thursday August first two thousand and nineteen and we are going to be focusing for one topic <hes> pretty much this entire program today with the exception of our newsbreaks in our conversation with talk media news <hes> our national correspondents respondents after the midshow news from C._B._S. and <hes> other than that we are going to be talking today about opiate addiction in Vermont and about the the state's strategy prodigy for treating people who are experiencing opioid opiate addiction and we have a great line of guests from various aspects of the state's system for dealing with this epidemic in Vermont and <hes> it's going to be <hes> we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA focus first on sort of an overview <hes> and then we're GONNA get into talking with folks who are representing the <hes> the hubs and spokes you hear a lot about the hub and smoke treatment system in Vermont and <hes> we'll be talking with someone who actually has a has experienced addiction in his own life at the authority toward the end of the program find out a little bit about what's next in terms terms of what's coming folks who are experiencing addiction to opiates in Vermont and I want to get right into it because we have a very packed program this morning. We're we're GONNA start with Jackie Coralie. She is with the Burlington Police Department and she actually has a huge portfolio. They're responding to issues in BURLINGTON ranging from from drug addiction to homelessness and she was formerly with the state health. Department has a background in in in social work in the addiction field and Jackie corporate's. I believe actually in the studio with me this morning. I WanNa thank you very much Jackie for coming in today. You're welcome and so tell me. Give me a little bit of an overview here. <hes> what what is the tell me a little bit about what is the the hub and spoke system overall having folks system is a comprehensive system of care <hes> designed to meet the needs of those individuals who find themselves in the throes of addiction <hes> in a nutshell a hub is a comprehensive system system of care where folks go often daily dosed in either what we call Methadone or Buprenorphine <hes> and those are what we refer to as medication assisted therapies Matt Matt Treatments <hes> those folks often go or daily dose they might work to apply to a time where they are getting dosed. <hes> take homes a spoke as more more of a traditional doctors office where you would go in. You're going to get a prescription for Yuban orphan. You're going to have a nurse and a social worker there to work with you on various various life aspects <hes> but that is more of a traditional medical model like you would see in a number of family practices okay and and <hes> let me back up even further. Tell me what are some of the different <hes> experiences are factors that actually lead people to decide initially that they need <hes> <hes> they need to get treatment is usually an encounter with law enforcement or is it just an individual decision family members coming to you and saying hey you've got to get some help here. What's going on on that front all of it <hes> it is this this disease that led us in the state of Vermont to design the hub and spoke model recognizes recognizes that this disease is <hes> <hes> a disease that will take people to their knees so because of that many many people enter the system of care in a variety of different ways? It might be a family member oftentimes when you're in the throes of an addiction to this magnitude you lose is everything <hes> you might have a family member say to you you need to get services <hes> or these are going to be the consequences. It could be a law enforcement moment <hes> involvement it could be a friend it could be another professional. It could be somebody that you are potentially on the streets. It is a very individualistic decision on how in when you're going to access services and the folks who access services who come in for the first time you have any sense of what percentage of them <hes> stay with treatment or is it something that they you know they come in for a day and think they're going to get your life together and then as Li- backward this it is not uncommon for people to engage in medication assisted treatment and <hes> relapse APPs at some point <hes> we hope that people will re-engage <hes> there are those people thankfully that engage in services and do not not experience relapse in continue on the medication <hes> there are those people that relapsed once and then reengaging services and there are some people who this is a multitude multitude they go through a multitude multitude of relapses before they fully engage. It's it's a complex question that does not have an easy answer and I think that depends on the individual where the individual is at and how they are working through their recovery and what is the the system itself and people working system like yourself. You've you've done so at different levels and so on overtime <hes> you must have to be pretty patient with people <hes> because my sense of this is that I mean I I've known people who've had a drinking problem <hes> and and <hes> you know people talk about going on the wagon off the wagon and et Cetera and <hes> and this is something I mean it sounds like a similar situation where it's very very easy to relapse because <hes> you know you're going through your days and you're staying clean or or in the case of of somebody would alcoholism. You're avoiding alcohol for a couple of weeks and then all of a sudden one day comes particularly tough day or something you're you're back to drinking <hes> same kind of thing here right well well. I think you know you're really lucky this morning that you're going to have some fantastic guests speak and I think the commonality that you're going to hear from all of us are that when I deal with an individual I don't look at them. <hes> with the problem I look at them as a human being and and if I can look at them as a human being who is struggling than <hes> I'm able to then offer the services and stick with them when they relapse APPs when they encountered tough times. Nobody asks for this. NOBODY ASKS TO BE HOMELESS TO LOSE THEIR JOBS to lose their family <hes> and when I you have somebody sit across from me no matter what position or job I've been in <hes> I recognize often. It's the addiction speaking to me. <hes> that really is threatened that there's going to be a recovery process and if I can recognize this human being truly <hes> is not the addiction that makes my engagement with them sustaining wow. That's a really interesting thought so so basically you. You're you're looking at two entities one is the person in one is the addiction in Europe regarding them as two separate things. It looks like well I recognize that the addiction doesn't don't WanNA stop <hes>. I mean so if I'm offering treatment <hes> or any of the folks are going to talk to our offering treatment. The addiction gets threatened because addiction wants to keep moving and wants to keep sustaining itself feeding itself with the drug the person that's sitting in front of me that is encompassed by this addiction. Does Not I wanna live like this often times. They are <hes> they are really. They're in a very low place and it takes a lot to ask for help. This is the most shame based disease on our planet yeah and actually to refer to it purely as a disease you know again the old alcohol model people used to talk about it. Is it a is it a sort of a moral failing or is it a is it a purely disease <hes> it seems as though the the consensus among the people who are dealing with us on a daily basis as as a professional like you is that <hes> it's a disease and and we we are going to treat it as the disease and leave aside any any of this sort of blame and shame stuff well. I think I'd I'd say to anybody WHO's listening. If you have a family member you yourself are addicted. We're talking about opiates but that could be a number of addictions. Your brain has been hijacked and <hes> our job in the community is to help that individual vitual lose that dependence on that's Rog Toledo life a normal say to live a life recovery yeah now tell me a little a bit about the <hes> you made a transition from the <hes> I believe from the alcohol and Drug Abuse Drug Abuse Program at the Department of Health to the Burlington Police Department where you're where you are for now the Drug Mental Health and Homelessness Policy and Operations Manager for the Burlington Police Department and <hes> and I know that there's there's been sort or a two polls here and the overall debate about how we respond to drug problems and so on and it's sort of oftentimes framed as law enforcement versus the treatment versus a healthcare model and <hes> the <hes> so break that down for me and tell me what does the transition been and like you for you personally from a purely health-based atmosphere at the health department the Police Department great question. I think this has been a gift. <hes> I have been a clinician. I've been in the public health arena. I'm now in the police department. <hes> I do not think as citizens we recognize day in day out what these folks are up against inst- our officers and blue going out in the streets for me. This has been an incredible experience to learn how policing works but also sorta offer my public health lens on how we work with individuals and I have to say <hes> the police department is amazing and how they're responding the people who are in the throes of addiction and and and that follows right up through the state's attorney's office to right I mean it seems as though they are also <hes> trying trying to <hes> <hes> not not be purely law enforcement crackdown kind of attitude here with more more matter of <hes> making sure that the people who they are ready to make a change have the the resources available. I I'm really blessed to be in Chilton County. We have a Jitney county state's attorney who is not prosecuting for for Misdemeanor Buprenorphine. I am really blessed that my supervisor Chief Del Pozzo understands the Public Health Lens as does the deputy chiefs right and Murad who I work with and other law enforcement folks in the police department absolutely it's about helping it's not about punishing. It's a <hes> it. It is a a really interesting approach. Year hasn't been followed in other states around the country. We get calls all the time. All the time I get phone calls from other states saying you're a social worker worker in a police department. How does that work? There's a there's an anomaly having having this position there and I have to shift up Ozo- he's the one that came up with this idea with the support report of the mayor of Burlington. Wow that is that is interesting. I've got three guests lined up for the second segment of the program Maureen Lee he is director of neurology and Psychiatry Healthcare Services at the University of Vermont Medical Center <hes> Dr Javaid Mosh Puri is medical director of Emergency Z.."