Susanna Martinez, Bill Richardson, Ed Ed Williams discussed on Richard Eeds


You know, Iron Curtain or the firewall of C Y F D somewhere in the middle. Ah, there's information that could be of value should be known by the public. Who's the gatekeeper of all that? I mean, who decides? Well, this is good. And I mean, if if everything is made available is everything is for the eyes of God. Williams, can you see Should you a be able to see everything and then decide what to use and what not to use. No. I mean the state law, The New Mexico Public Records Act or the inspection, Public Records Act. Sorry, eyes where All of this is laid out. Pretty clearly I can read the statute. But does that apply? Does it apply to a nap like signal? Yes, Absolutely. We sword cannot be sorted in that way into those silence. No, You can't just you can't change whether record is public or not Based on the You know, the platform that it takes place on the question is whether it is, you know, created by a public body. Um, So you know, in the in the in the carrying out of public business, So the fact that it's um you know, the fact that it's on signal doesn't remove it from, you know. Subject to Debra. Here's the statute. It says that a public record is any record that's used, created, received, maintained or held by or on behalf of any public body and relates to public business, regardless of physical form. So that means emails, text messages, you know, voicemails anything? Um, Facebook post. If it's an official Facebook page, you know, so it having it on signal. Doesn't change its You know whether or not subject to public records, but the big problem here I think, according to the You know, Mexico Foundation for open government and others that I've spoken to is it So much. I mean, I don't think signal is Azan Apted's approved for government use, at least in the federal government. But It's less that you know that you're communicating on encrypted platforms. There's an argument to be made, and I think a good one that you would want your government officials have secure communications so they can't get hat. The problem is automatically and indiscriminately deleting entire conversations on 24 hour basis, or in some cases on the six hour basis, depending on the information. Is the reaction from your story on this. Ed Ed Williams from Searchlight. New Mexico Searchlight in m dot org. If you want to read it many great stories great investigating news source that we have right here in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Has the reaction been upsy or is the reaction been too bad or direction Been? We vetted everything. We're going strictly by the book here. What kind of the pushback from either see why FDA the governor's office. And that will the government whose office has been silent. We made, you know, multiple causes her communications officer on didn't get any response. And I know I mean, they have to be aware of it, because, um You know the ages all over this now you'll probably get him answer going to reply. Any requests that goes through the P I o of the You know, she last year in the department's going to go through her office as well, but you know, the Cabinet secretary Ryan Blaylock says that listen, you know we're doing this because we need to communicate securely, and he says we're going to keep doing it. Attorney General Hector Balderas says not so fast. This looks like a possible violation of public records laws and we're gonna you know, we're gonna be looking into it. So the ages office is starting, you know, a probe of Of the agencies use of these platforms. One other thing know that I think is important to point out is that it's just It's not just a problem based on New Mexico's public records laws, right? This isn't just an access to government documents. Public documents issued that the other side of this is that attorneys guardian that lions you know people that care for kids in foster care. Depends on access to these kinds of documents because it's part you know, in order to ensure that a child's case is being handled properly, So that's a different story than public, you know than hipper than the Public Records Act. Because These documents can no longer be accessed by you know the legal discovery process. They can't be subpoenaed. If there's a court case that comes up these communications can't play into that case, no matter how vital they might be, because they're gone. That's that's another big issue. So you're saying that now retiring Supreme Court Justice Barbara V. Hill when she was in Children's court, the judge could have said Can we have discovery here? Can we see the evidence here? And if C y f D says sorry we deleted it was on signal. Um, man, the judge is not gonna be happy. I mean, you're absolutely right. Theater knees for these kids advocates. People who look out for the Children now have no access to these records. Right, right. And you know the attorneys that I spoke to for this that Aaron Child Law, you know, couldn't emphasize enough how much communication between employees often plays into this kind of the work that they do right like and if you just take him out off the table You're basically just wiping away a big part of the information that they used to do their job. We don't have evidence that you know Children have been directly harmed by this, but it's certainly plausible knows. Who knows? I mean, that's the point in it. It's been deleted. We don't we don't know We don't know and that water cooler talking maybe water cooler. Talk to somebody. But that conversation between two employees about situation that a child is in with foster parents who are abusive or something like that. It could be water cooler talking away. I could just be idle chatter, but it also could be very, very important. Yeah, I mean, and another thing is, I think in area that we didn't really touch on in the story. I mean, is is kind of a one of culture, right? I mean, we have a situation where Leadership in the department has directed employees to use a secretive chap platform right and that it's okay to test a merrily delete conversations on there, even if it's not taking place between one of these threads that the Cabinet secretary or deputy secretary or putting together You know, I think a concern is that you can have a work place of work environment where employees just think this is the way that we communicate. This is how it's done. And so that's kind of a slippery slope. Because then you can start having conversations That certainly should be. You know, public record, or, you know relevant to Ah Child Law case, um, that are taking place on signal and you know being deleted because that's That's the way the department's been operating Well, and I appreciate it. I think all of our experience is the fact that every administration that comes in is gonna be 100% more transparent than last one happened with Susanna Martinez. Bill Richardson wasn't exactly transparent. She was Okay, take on and in face of her opaqueness, and they wouldn't release anything..

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